New 2009 Teen Challenge Series

http://www.youtube.com/user/Teaminfinity8

 

Update

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aif_DRuP6Qo

 

Any questions on purchasing of the bike. Please contact me via PM, Email([email protected]), or phone(704-847-8454)

Looking forward to getting this going & the 2009 season. Good luck to everyone.

Sincerely,

Kyle Pulley
Matthews Fun Machines
11240 E. Independence Blvd.
Matthews, Nc 28105
www.matthewsfunmachines.com
704-847-8454

 

Bikes also available at Interstate Cycle, Contact Barry at 704-987-9800.
Interstate is also A long time supporter of WERA and their teams have won quite a few National championships

Ab

 

One question: Is your series going to pay anywhere near what the Moriwaki series pays in contingency?? The Moriwaki may be more expensive, but you more than make up for it in winnings.

 

specific questions:

1. Aprilia is sending a very limited number of RS125 to the states. Many are spoken for already. How are you going to assure an adequate number of machines to support a series.
2. What region of CCS are you going to run with?
3. What, if any, purses will be available?
4. Has Aprilia offered any support?
5. What format are you going to run? Qualifying?
6. Will CCS force the class to run with its other classes or will track time be dedicated?

 

Good Question.

Lets look at what your asking.

Moriwaki is a 10 race series National?

This is a 5 race series on the east coast.

Moriwaki engines are motocross engines, which run about $2k for a rebuild if they blow up?

These are GP inspired 2 strokes, which cost around $200 if they seize. About $700 for full rebuild. Most riders we have talked to make a full 7 race weekend series on a top end.

Moriwaki allows ANY commercial fuel. ( allowing advantages on performance ) Also allow tire choices.

These all require same Control fuel and Control Tires ( making for a more EVEN playing field equipment wise)

And last but not least, Moriwaki is Sponsored by Honda........who throw money at whatever they want to make into the next market.......without thinking about what is the best for rider development. ( reference to why Nicky left Honda after so many years).

So in short, we will have a purse, and as more sponsors come on board, there will be more. Is it going to be comparable to Moriwaki?
No, in no way is this going to be comparable to a Moriwaki......it will be better.

 

Chris,

Congrats on your promotion to VP at CMRA

1. see above contact info Kyle at Matthews, he will be happy to talk with you.
2. More then one, as it will cover the eastern seaboard.
3. See above answer.
4. Not as yet, but were talking to them about it. My Italian wife is good friends with Luca Boscoscuro ( the Race Team Manager of Metis Gilera, Ajo motorpsorts... the current 125, and 250 World Champions ) and shes working on that, I'm just the lackey.
5. Same as any real race series. Timed qualifying. Cutoff at 110%
6. Depending on grid size, it will run stand alone. We anticipate 15 bikes +.

Now, with your new job title you can afford that 250 you need. Give me a call, I still have 2 for sale!

 

Bike Availability @ moment.

Barry @ Intertstate Has 3 on the floor, and 3 more in route by Feb.

Kyle @ Matthews has 2 On the floor and more at request.

The faster you guys buy these up, the faster more arrive.

Theres 8 right there, and 3 others already sold in GA and VA.

Now were at 12 in NC dealers alone. Doesn't look like were having a shortage of these bikes to me.

:tut:

 

From the USGPRU thread on these bikes

As discussed in the replies, the Aprilia is a good bike and would be great for a spec racing series, for youths or even opened up for any age, its cost is less than what some people spend on rebuilding and modifying their RS125 for the coming season, Up here in Alberta there is local track owner based in Edmonton ( Stratatech Park ) looking at purchasing 12 Aprilia’s 125 for a spec series, you can buy or rent the bike for the season, It sounds like a great thing for youths in spec series where it comes down to the riders ability just like the Superteen Challenge in England. Lets hope he can pull it off, its guys like this that want to discover the next generation of champions buy starting of with a low budget because as we all know it soon gets expensive.
It’s all good stuff.
Conor's Dad

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Location: Zagreb, Croatia

PostPosted: Tue Dec 02, 2008 10:30 am Post subject: Reply with quote
I used to (and I will again next season) race an Aprilia RS 125. It's a road going bike that weighs around 140 kg stock and produces 28 or so HP at the crank. But the new model comes with a flat slide carb, remapable ECU and is a really beautiful bike. Over here (in some European countries) there's a 125 Sport Production class for these machines. You can lighten it to 110 kg's without fuel and with rather small modifications (porting, getting the head right, right pipe and some suspension tuning) you can get a really fast bike with almost 40 bhp that can pull to about 200 km/h. In Italy and Croatia these races sometimes end up in fist fights cause the bikes are so evenly matched, so it's great for the crowd and the riders to learn. No to fist fight, but to ride.


At $5995 you guys over there should really be looking seriously at these bikes for your youth development programmes.

In NZ these bikes are too expensive ($10-12k NZD) so they tend to be overlooked and we struggle around on the old crappy RG150, KR150 commuter bikes for our youth development.

But in the UK and elsewhere these things are what are really setting the scene for youth development.

In the UK, the SuperTeen Cup, where young riders use identically spec'd Aprilia RS125s, is where all of their talent is coming from. The young riders (12-16ish) spend a couple of seaons on these at all the circuits in the UK then graduate to 125GP or other classes.

The new British Red Bull Rookies Cup riders, and the previous ones, have in large part, come through this route, or through the MetraKit classes.

I cannot for the life of me see what the point is in people fiddling around building RS85s and the like (unless they just want to fiddle of course, or there is a rule limiting size or something), or indeed getting into MD250H's first up when there are these things available. As I say, if they were $5995 here we would get down on as many as we could!!!

So at $5995 that is really a steal. These are pretty sharp and beautiful bikes and can be kitted out to be really good race bikes. They are not GP bikes, but with a grid of 20 or more of them who would give a crap?

The Cagiva Mito 595 is very similar and also a stunner. Perhaps not quite in the same league though.

Food for thought?

Cheers

Steve


http://usgpru.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=6727


Thought I would copy it before it "disappears"

The people always tell you what they REALLY want........you just have to listen to them, and not form your OWN ideas as to what they need.

 

Last year was a 9 race series with two doubleheaders. $10000 up for grabs every weekend 1st through 10th place.

I'm not sure where you get your numbers, but I just did a complete rebuild with a new head on one of our Moriwaki's for $850 using the same cylinder. It would have been under $600 with the same head. Of course, that is not retail on parts or install, but what racer pays retail on anything?

The fuel and tires available will barely make difference compared to rider skill as for keeping it a level playing field. We've run four different fuels and tried different tires with no noticeable difference in lap times.

I'm not trying to knock your series, but I don't like the way you quietly put down or try to discourage people from running the Moriwaki series. Why don't you just introduce your series and be done. Why put down another series?

As for development of a racer, you can't tell me a slower and less horsepower bike that can't get out of it's own way will develop a kid like a RS125 or a Moriwaki would do. Will the racing be fun? Sure, but rider development, I think not. I want to get my kids familiar with speed and horsepower as quick as they can handle it.

Just my .02

 

You make points , Lets talk about these:

First, you ask why do we attack the Moriwaki's?

Simple, its the only other Teen series on the street to compare what were doing against. ( Except for RRRC, and thats a whole different league). Besides you brought up the Moriwaki's, I didn't. I simply shared my .2 cents on it.

Now,

Daniel Jackson our Crew chief used to race these as well ( and hes a big boy ) and he will tell you his experience shortly, this idea was primarily his, as he has seen many riders develop upward in the GP class in England and then go to Spain. Where did they start? These bikes. So to imply these are not proven as development tools, and at the same time imply the Moriwaki is? ( Brand new model bike in 08 )

What we have available stateside as a race development program is NOT working ( read the back cover of the recent RRW and even Aitkencade admits this, he has a solution for it, but we don't agree with it).

Fathers with tight wallets, who have sons with a burning desire, are not going to get a REAL chance to show the world what they can do, without a class like this.

Total cost for this program will run right around the COST of a New Moriwaki.

We will outline these cost shortly, but just to leave you with a few tidbits?

Daniel and most ran a full 10 race series in England on 1(ONE) set of tires!
Full season on (1) top end. No problems.

Were not advocating that, but it is obviously doable to cut cost and still maintain safety, fun, and rider development.

We only advocate anything on statistical results for rider development, opinions are rampant and many, but real results NEVER lie.
Thats why were so HOT on the Aprilias. they have a Long, strong track record of devloping Champion riders.

Max Biaggi ( Italy ) World SBK, GP 500, MotoGP
Valentino Rossi (Italy) 125,250,500, MotoGP champion
Danny Pedrosa ( Spain)
Casey Stoner ( in England )
James Toseland ( England, nice lad too)
Scott Redding ( England, now Blusens 125 @ CEV )
etc, etc.

My .2 cents

 

Hi all

My Name is Daniel Jackson.

I moved into Road racing here in the UK from moto X when i was 13. Back then (all them years ago (8years)) the Aprilia RS125 was the best bike to start on and personally i think it still is.

I completed two seasons on this before moving to the 125gp class. It was and still is the cheapest form of racing i have ever done. I used 2 sets of tyres per season (they never seemed to affect performance at any wear point, they just went hard after a while) I only ever rebuilt the engine once, at a total cost of £340 included all new bearings, rebuilt crank, and race piston and Replate. It never seized once the only problem i had was with the oil pump before we removed it for the pre mix setup.

These bikes are an awsome step into roadracing, they handle superb they are the nearest thing youll get to a GP 125 or 250bike for Bicycle racing prices. They are quick enough and nimble enough for the novice to expert rider and if i was young enough id race in the series for the hell of it. These bikes are great. And the best thing i found, when i sold it i got exactly what i paid for the bike back, what more can you ask.

After seeing some of the Moriwaki results this year and grid sizes, and before anyone says im slating the class, this is only my personal opinion. I think the bikes are way over priced for what they are, yes the prize money is ok but being involved in WGP and CEV 125GP racing it is certainly not the correct route to go. Two stroke 125's will NOT be replaced for at least 10 years at world level yet, thats a well known fact. If the Moriwaki class was going to make it as a successful US 125GP replacment it would have done it already.

I can name at least 20 world known paid racers that have come up through this type of class in various countries, which obviously proves that it is the place to be. A sucessful season on one of these bikes and i would see the riders progressing very quickly through the ranks into European and World level where they need to be.

If anyone has any questions about these bikes and racing them feel free to email me at [email protected]

Dan

 

You're the one that posted your video on an open forum.....so you might just get few different opinions.

We raced a whole season on the Moriwaki and only did one top end. I just rebuilt the motor for next season. You expect everyone to believe for one second you can get through a season on one set of tires!!!!!!! We raced a Metrakit last year, and went through a set of tires every two weekends. If you are pushing in the corners, you are going to wear out tires. If you are as slow as Christmas, you can get a pretty long life out of any tire on any bike. Do you take us for idiots?

What is the real cost involved? Moriwaki is $11,699, put gas in it and race. If you win every race you enter, your kid earns $22,000.00. Lets say your kid gets 6th in every race, you still earn $11,000.00!! Aprilia is $5995 and how much does it take to get it race ready?? (suspension, bodywork, engine refinement, tires, taking off all the street crap) and you can earn how much in contengency?? As of right now $0. So, which one cost more to run? Our bike was paid for last year and then some. It is just profit from hear on out. You can say what you want, but when the dollars add up, we will stay with the USGPRU and the Moriwaki series.

Once again, I'm not knocking your series, but you guys always put down what other people are doing if it doesn't agree with you.

 

To your point of all the champions you named and what they rode as a youth is weak. What else would they have rode?? Nothing else was available at the time. That is like saying all the motocross kids should be training on XR75's because that is what Jeff Ward came up on.

I do have mixed emotions on what is a better training tool...an RS125 or a Moriwaki? We ride both and each bike teaches you something different. I guess only time will tell since four strokes are just now hitting the market for road racing.

They sure didn't do very well in motocross??

By the way, the Moriwaki class was announced very late before the season started last year. Most racers had already bought their race bikes for the following season when it was announced. Since it was the 1st year of any available 4 stroke commercially, I think it is little early to say the revolution is over. Once again, we'll just have to wait and see what 4 strokes do in youth roadracing.

 

Lets talk about that:

So there were 6.2 Moriwaki bikes per race on the East Coast.

5.6 Per race on the West Coast

and 5 bikes entered at the Final this year.

Everyone got there piece of the pie, good for your pocket book. I like seeing Honda write checks.......

You made money on your bike racing, nothing wrong with that at all. Lord knows we didn't, and we won everything we raced in the 250GP class. (except one where we finished 2nd)

Were not claiming to make dads pocket book fatter racing these bikes, were saying dads likelihood of money spent and rider development is going to go much farther then on a Morwaki. But lets talk about racing cost for an Aprilia.

Bike $5499+ tax, lets say $6k ( you didn't add tax to yours )
Bodywork race trim, no painting allowed only numbers and sponsor stickers. $500
415 Chain kit and sprockets $150
Suspension set up $400
Entry for 6 races $900
3 sets of tires $600
Fuel $400
Travel Expense per weekend $500 ($3000)

Grand Total $11950.
And were still less then the COST of the Moriwaki.....
And barring crashes, or blown engines(not likely, since its a 10 year plus very well proven design)
we just finished a competitive Spec series for less then the Cost of the Moriwaki.

Food for thought. And we haven't even announced the sponsors or the prize money yet.

As for small 2 strokes, they teach riders CORNER speed, always have always will. That plus having to be precise on ever movement made. ( Same reason why Mini 85 GP bikes came about, that plus cost being cheaper)
Same Reason why they haven't gotten ride of them in the 125 class.
IMHO the only reason they went to 4 stroke at MotoGP? ....NOISE and fan attraction........
Listening to the MotoGP bikes at Indy this year, and watching the 125 and 250's coming into turn one from the straight???? the crowds just weren't as attentive to the quieter bikes.........

Oh and Moriwaki was making 2 stroke bikes during the same period of riders I mentioned....so there in fact were other options to the Aprilias back then.......

 

Heres another good point found on the USGPRU thread:

I think the reason many of like to "fiddle" and build RS85s and RS150s is that a young kid gets to start out on a lightweight GP chassis. If, as has been said this Aprilia weighs 100 lbs more than an RS125 that's about 270 lbs which is quite a lot of bike for a young kid to throw around. Some of our younger riders are as light as 70 lbs.

Apart from that one point, I definitely do see its appeal as a starter class.



Now how much did Josh Herrin weigh when he started riding 600's? Jason Disalvo? Garret Carter? These guys weren't BIG by any means, and a 600 weight what 340 plus?

Royce McLean is currently set up on 600's and hes a little guy too. (with big heart and skills)

and now Josh is gonna ride Superbikes and he weighs 130?
http://www.gravesport.com/Race_Team/race_team_06_bioJHerrin.php


These bikes are not too heavy in any way. And not all the riders will be 70 lbs. Nice try guys! Plus bikes in race trim will scale in around 220ish

 

I am not going to be running either of the Moriwaki or the Aprilia series so I have no bias either way. However, my take on this is a simple one. There will be a new series, it will have some prize money ( which is more than many racers ever see) and it will be on bikes that are safe and fun to ride. As far as I can see...this is great! Debating which series is better misses the point that this is a good thing for racing. Too bad the other Japanese companies can't see the benefit of a reasonably priced spec series. Hats off to both Stuart for the Moriwaki series and Frank for the Aprilia series. parillaguy

 

Even better point made parilla guy, thanks for stepping in.

We tend to forget that were ALL in this racing in the US and theres plenty of room for more bikes on grids.

Cheers
Frank

 

Grid Size: Did you miss my last post on the annoucement of the series late?

Blowing engines: Last year real world experience, RS125-two blown motors, Moriwaki-none.

MotoGP going to four strokes: That's funny, I remember for the displacement rules, the four stroke was faster.

You missed my point: I meant the riders back then didn't have a choice of a 4 stroke for development riding.



I'm just letting everyone know the truth about racing a Moriwaki, not the inaccurate information you are putting forth. I don't think it is very professional for you to bash another series to try to get someone to race your series.......that is what started this whole conversation.

We throughly enjoyed racing the USGPRU and Moriwaki series with Stewart last year and can't wait for next year.

Good luck with your series.