Right to die, obligation to live

DOH! Sorry Papa. Reading comprehension is my friend!


P.S. Hey, Rodger.......

 

Being a born-again -Christian, I would like for you'll to join me at my church for Sunday school and Wednesday night bible studies. Please visit http://www.landoverbaptist.org/

People who pray together stay together!

 

Thanks Mats. But Troll, Rich Around, and Your Pastor (all the same guy) all posted this link and it wasn't funny then, so therefore, you get......




Mad props go to Eddie845, whom I stole this from.

 

Now that has to be someones idea of a joke. A horrible one, but a joke.

 

The little Jesus in me still thinks it's funny. And Jay, what's the "Big Bang"? Some kinda naughty movie?

 

What theory chucklehead? God created them too. Wouldn't you. They would have been the coolest creatures on the Superpower block back then.

I believe in God and creationism. There really is no other reason for our existence other than someone's entertainment.

I aslo think he has other galaxies and planets too. Think of it, we are like the biggest toy soldiers game around. I remember getting the electric football game(vibrating ones) for Christmas(ironic in the thread) where the players could turn and I was the shit... well God is a little pissed cuz the Dinosaurs ate each other up and Mattel wouldn't give him his money back... not sure but didn't they go bankrupt? LOL He's also a little put out because the Devil's players are winning all of the block part games.

 

That basic steps of evolution are:
1. Genetic mutation (chance, caused by UV, radiation or other chemical and/or electrical damage to DNA)

2. Selection (ie, usually a habitat change (disease, temperature, food source, predators etc)) that kills off most of a species but leaves certain ones alive that have a certain previously received mutation. This could phenotypically be resistance to drought, resistance to DDT, or having particular coloration, a longer neck, many many things.

3. Geographic separation: the usual definition of a species is the offspring of two members of the same species are fertile. To achieve a completely new species you usually need geographic separation for a substantial period of time before this is achieved because you need enough DNA variations so that the two sides don't match up anymore. Darwin made many observations of this in the Galapagos islands.

That said, we did evolution experiments in the 10th grade with fruit flies and were able to demonstrate both 1 and 2 pretty simply in just a matter of weeks. That was a 10th grade science class. I have a micro-biologist friend out in Utah that is creating new species of bacteria and worms in the lab monthly. You are aware that most DNA (genotype) is the same for all living organisms. Humans are genotypically almost identical to blue-green algae. Very slight changes in the genotype can lead to very very large changes in the phenotype.

On the other note, of course all human mitochondrial DNA traces back to a single woman. She was the first human. There is always the first one of any new species. The egg came first, it just wasn't laid by a chicken. It was laid by something that was very very similar to a chicken, but not a chicken.

Now, can we please turn this conversation back to finding out who is willing to put a plastic bag on Papa's head so we can exert some peer pressure on them to not do it, and, failing that, getting them to pick up that notebook for me.

 

don't forget recessive alleles.

 

t316: I hereby transfer any and all rights to said steak dinner to Sam Flemming.

Sam: According to my legal dictionary, a real steak dinner cannot occur at any Ponderosa-like establishment. I suggest a Morton's either in NYC or Chicago.

Rodger

 

Or Nashville, TN.

 

Sam, I would buy you a steak dinner anyway. I 've followed your writing for many years, thanks for all the great articles. But being a racer, what I actually had in mind was a "Hungry Man Deluxe Steak Dinner, complete with mashed spuds with gravy."

I think that we could all agree that the "evolution" that I was referring to was a gradual graduation from a lower life form to a higher life form, read amoeba to lizard to bird, etc... I could probably guess that your micro biologist friend has never had one of his bacteria sprout a leg or an ear or even grow a thicker skin in response to temp drops. After all that's what evolutionists say has happened, although over a period of millions and millions of years.

I'll still buy you that steak dinner though, if you come through Atlanta let me know.


Tim Mobley
EX#316
770-304-4594

 

That's the key. Millions and millions of years. Just like if you only have $1,000, you cannot possibly imagine what it would be like to have a million dollars, even if you think you could.

If his friend can mutate living organisms in a 30 day period, that is 1/12th of 1/1000th years.

Since Jesus was roaming Earth, 2,000 years have passed. That is all of everything that most people are even remotely aware of as "ancient history".

That amount of time is like .001 sec in a 100 year long endurance race.

If they can mutate an organism in 30 days, well I am surprised we've only evolved as far as we have in millions of years.

 

So the theory isn't sound because we can't demonstrate an admittedly million-year-long process in the laboratory within a human lifetime? But Creationism is believable without one shred of scientific evidence to support it.

Time to back up 15 yards and punt as this is pointless to continue.

 

Here is the oldest question I had when I first doubted the existence of God, around age 5.


Daddy, "If God created everything, the World, and even the Universe, which is everything we know in every possible direction, where is God standing when he created all of this? I mean if the universe is like this shoebox, and God is creating it, what room or where is he at?"

 

OK tim, you're buying Sam dinner b/c you're a suck-up to famous writer guy. I'm back on for the steak dinner!!

I'll buy the wine. . . and it won't come in a box!!

Rodger

 

Hey Tim,

Thanks for the props on the articles. We have a whole bunch of material we are working on now so we'll try to keep you in reading material this fall and winter.

On the evolution side of things, one of the common misconceptions about evolution is that organisms adapt to their surroundings such as your example of an animal growing a thicker skin in response to temp drops. That isn't actually how the theory goes.

Using your example (a drop in temperatures) the prediction would be that some organisms would already have the geno/pheno (geneotype is the DNA, phenotype is what the physical manifestation of the DNA be it physical composition or behavior etc) to be able to survive in the new climate. Let's say you had a whole bunch of big reptiles, the temperature plunged and all the big reptiles can't survive and die off, the little fur covered things running around on the ground and the other ones with feathers survive. The fur and feathers didn't appear because of the cold, they already had them because the feather and the fur were not harmful mutations. The organisms that survive pass along their favorable genes to their offspring.

99.9% of all species that have ever existed are now extinct.

Modern husbandry techniques are simply evolution with certain genetic selections (fast growth, friendly dispositions) not occuring at random. That's how we end up with huge corn and enormous pigs. Modern corn has almost nothing in common with its wild ancestor and that occured in only 500 years.

Or think of the change from wolves to dachsunds, or jack russell terriers. That is an enormous change...and genotypically, they are still the same species (wolves and dogs).

Lastly your time frame is off by an order of magnitude. It didn't happen over millions of years...it was billions of years.

If a wolf can become a chihuahua in 10,000 years, algae can become blue whales in 4,000,000,000 years.

Do you think we should split this thread off? We can have the "Kill Papa?" thread and the "faith/scientific method - creationism/evolution" thread.

 

Ok gents, pay attention, the question is not if evolution happened. That is another long drawn out argument with lots of hair pulling, weeping and nashing of teeth.

The question is whether evolution (the species jumping/evolving/shapeshifting/whateveryouwanttocallit), from a slime to a lizard to a bird etc, etc...) has been observed, proven, documented, bla, bla, bla- IN A LAB. That is the statement that I am trying to bring to light. The statement was made that evolution has been proven in a lab. Maybe macroevolution, but not the type that I am referring to above.

Thanks for your continued interest.

 

Rodger, I never claimed to not being a suck-up, so you can't use that. Now I would be willing to compromise, how about that Hungry Man?

What else would wine come in besides a carton?

 

Microevolution (creating a strain of albino mice) has been observed, proven and documented in biology labs for centuries. Ironically, one of the first people to observe and document the phenomena was a monk.

Macroevolution (reptiles to mammals) has been observed, proven and documented in labs as well. They usually have brass plaques on the door that say "Paleontology".

The crazy thing is that the DNA of all species of everything is almost the same. From a gene standpoint, we are only slightly different from the mung bean. You don't need big changes in the DNA to get big changes in the phenotype.

 

What is amazing to me, is having such similar DNA, but only one species developing what we consider human characteristics such as language (many different ones among the same species). Does a dolphin in the carribean speak the same language as a dolphin in the Pacific?