Supersport Build = Loss of 8 HP

It contributes nothing, but I did not see where Kiggy74 actually named the shop or builder. COuld have overlooked it in the 5 pages though. The fact that someone that obviously knows the builder and had a discussion about it is simply coincidence, as is the couple of people that may know the OP and as well might know where the work was done.

It is the advantage of riders that have had years of experience to know all the variables that go into building a motor, and it is kind of understandable that someone relatively new to the sport would look to the beeb for some answers on what could go wrong following a build. Hopefully after another dyno run with a similar 600 to compare to, the "missing HP" will show back up.

 

He did see it through. Up until your budget was flatline. It isn't the first Honda he has built either. That generation maybe. You insulted him when you stated you felt he got in over his head. Wish me to quote that statement? Not trolling when you are the one choosing the words, Tim...

As Melk stated - you are a newbie and it is common for folks like yourself to come to the beeb for questions. That's fine.

First of all, the folks replying in the thread who stated they went to the same builder and got better results and even your buddy who you race with got better results and mentioned sidebar that he thinks the issue is you not twisting the throttle enough... He also is the one that stated you have done some "weird" things post build and it wasn't simple stuff like a kick stand switch. What about the clutch switch and other items? You didn't install the PC or anything else? The point is that 4 hp difference is something in what has been done not by the build, but by you or even something that was existing.

Once again, you go to the third grade and start with the bullshit name calling. We all know you have anger issues and cannot control your emotions. Obviously, it is a pattern and my suggestion is to maybe take up something less stressful and maybe something you are better at.

All I know I know is the builder is a top notch guy and IF you had used your head a bit better, you could have just asked what some ideas were vs. the slanderous tone with the comments. You don't have to mention the builder, but he read the thread and is REAL excited he gave you a discount... You are new to all of this and you have yet to realize just how small this circle is and you have essentially created a nice rep for yourself...

Hahahaha! That's a good one!!!

 

^^^Me thinks that you and reality haven't been on speaking terms for some time. I seriously think you need professional mental help, and/or some seriously meds.

You obviously have nothing constructive to add to this discussion, so move along little doggy. Find another tree to pee on.

 

Builder has not/will not be named. But I will say, if you go to someone for a haircut and they do an ineffective job, you expect them to fix it or to offer whatever assistance you require to make sure you're satisfied. If they don't do either, you can only assume they don't know what they are doing or they are trying to screw you. I don't think he was trying to screw me, he's a nice guy with a good rep. I'm just not satisfied with my experience. $1300 is a lot to spend for a weaker motor.

In this instance I'm giving the guy the benefit of the doubt and saying he didn't know what else to try, i.e. he was in over his head. He had the bike for a month for the initial build. After I got it back and had the second dyno I called him and he offered to take it back to look it over again and try the leak down test. He did, and it tested fine, at which point he was out of suggestions and I was out of time and needed the bike back. He had the bike for a total of about six weeks. If he had said "we really should do the valve job", I would've said to go for it. Had he said "Let's take a look at the electrical, these Hondas do some flaky things", I would've said for sure, let's dig into it. But none of that was offered after the check was cashed.

But again, this isn't relevant at this point, and doesn't help me find a solution. Here I am, asking for help. However the story does have the potential for making some good interwebs drama which attracts Lizard like a fly to shit, although I'm not sure which he is.

I've re-installed the injectors and the bike is running good. I've booked another dyno this week. Maybe I'll get improved results. Either way, I'll probably ride it this way for the rest of the season and take it to another builder this winter for the valve job and rebuilt bottom end.

 

Bottom line----
1. You sent your bike to an engine builder
2. you paid him money
3. it came back with less power (on the dyno and butt dyno i believe he said too).

any insults aside. If the builder truly is reputable and respected builder, he takes the bike back and makes it right...

 

But if the guy installed some things and removed some stuff afterwards, isn't it possible that the rider could have messed some things up? He's definitely not mechanically inclined - he paid to have the motor pulled and re-installed. The fact is that he did do some things per what others have stated and could have easily caused a loss.

As mentioned, two other CBR owners had the exact same things done with great results... If the builder did what he could for the budget that this guy had and didn't do anything different from the next two guys, it has to be something outside the build.

Tim got a full two seasons out of the thing. 09 and last season... I'd say that the build was solid. If there was a valve job done as described (suggested by other tuners on here) and the head work was done, the only other stuff he could have gone to was outside his budget... Hell, he doesn't even know he had a valve job done!! If he read his invoice, he'd see the valve job was done and yet all along, Mr. Knowledge doesn't even realize what he paid for!!

Then, as he just did in his last post, he is saying the builder was in over his head. That's bullshit. Again, the guy has a friend who had the same thing done and is getting desired results. That same friend says he had done things post the build. That's not good, man... It's like getting a motor built and then as soon as you get home, you gut the exhaust and drill holes in the air box...

My whole point is that there are others that had the same thing done and they got what they expected and more. This is the only guy and if the builder did a leak down and went through things to do some checks and couldn't find anything out of the ordinary, what else can he do? He gave the guy a discount on top of everything and even did some things that needed attention beyond what was asked for nothing.

Point is that this is a guy that no matter what happens, nothing will be done right. He's a constant complainer. Trust me...

He'll take it somewhere else, get a quote for a bottom end refresh along with needing new top end parts and realize that he's going to be into it for a LOT more than before. He doesn't realize what is coming. But, he'll scrape the funds together, get it refreshed, have the bottom end done and will get more power. Then, he will say it was a better builder and it'll never end...

 

This is what is really funny... You got a discount, you DID have a valve job done (even though you don't realize it) and there WERE things suggested, BUT you didn't want to pay for them. You also didn't have the funds to get what was really going to make a difference. Shit costs money, dude and you didn't want to spend it...

You need new top end parts. That thing has a TON of miles and abuse and you have no idea what is needed. You having a bottom end done is also going to cost a ton.

Your best bet is to buy an R6 and start over.

Again, the in over his head isn't a result of nothing else to try. He knows what to look for, what to test and what to try. If he does all these things and they all check out OK, that's nowhere near the definition of being over your head. See, that's the insult. You don't get it because that's the way you are, man.

That's what I am getting at. You insulted the guy and you are bashing him tot a degree. Guys on here say to have things done and the bottom line is that you have a poor performing bike to start with that had a shit pile of miles and needed fresh parts. Fresh parts are expensive and you weren't willing to go there.

Anyways, you win. Get your bike fixed, get it to a guy that will do what you ask for the budget you have. Good luck because you are going to need new parts at this stage. You better budget a good bit as it ain't gonna be cheap...

 

What does having engine work done by an actual engine builder have to do with someone being mechanically inclined or not?

How do you come to that conclusion?

 

Don't waste your time. He has no idea what he's talking about. This is what he does, follows people around the interwebs to assert his all-knowing self and corrects all the "peon's" like me in the world. He pulls this same crap on every forum he belongs to. He's a miserable person, who speaks out his ass without any facts.

And by the way, none of this affects him personally at all, nor does it have anything to do with him. Let's talk about reputations, ha ha ha. If he really cared about standing up for his buddy he too would be offering some suggestions to get it resolved. But instead he'd rather just jump in and insult me without any provocation and on a topic that doesn't affect him at all, and without any facts. All of this = miserable person.

 

It's not like Brian hasn't been kick off of forums for his actions.

By Tim not stating who did the rebuild as to not bash them, what happens when someone sponsored by a company starts blowing up on someone. I'm pretty sure that will turn more people off from using a company VS one person complaining. On a side not he is not complaining on what was done he just wants the bike back where it was. Regardless if the valves were done or not the motor should still put out at least the same hp before and after a rebuild.

 

why not take to an other shop to check? We have racers that bring us bikes built by others when they question the build/tune/work..some i say "nope that good/they are right" and others "wow..no" i can tell within 10 mins on the dyno 90% of the time if they did a good job or not. a 2007+CBR600RR on my DJ250i dyno on pump gas will make 106-109rwhp with full pipe/mapping. A good built LEGAL ss one with same pipe and same pump 92 gas should make @117-119. They are not zx/r6 for sure. But again, if you brought me a cbr600rr and it made 107-109 rwhp on my dj250 i'd say it was stock or built wrong. 10hp down is not acceptable on a 600ss build, 2-4 maybe..thats variable typically between dynos/days/etc..

Just take to someone else that is well known/good reputation on YOUR GEN CBR and run on the dyno and do simple leak down. If leak down is good and dyno reads same then you can look towards cam timing or other things. I just would get a 2nd option, again i have no clue who built this or who you are, just saying if i was you, just go to another shop with same type of dyno and see. Then have them overlay it with a stock engine run they have on file... just my $.02

 

^^ agreed!

 

Getting another dyno performed tonight by a different tuner who was recommended in an earlier post. At the least this will help to verify the results of the second dyno performed after the build.

 

In your first post you stated that you rode this bike all of last year and your going to take it to another dyno tonight to verify loss of horsepower from a year ago? How do you think that's going to work?

So lets assume that you have the same tire you had last time, the same gearing, race fuel from the same batch, and similar weather conditions. If you don't you have zero chance of learning anything. Not to mention the fact that the moment you started racing it the engine started loosing power and your changing dynos. Let me help you out....you are not going to learn anything.

 

Kelly, you're contaminating this post with logic.

 

i have no dog in this fight, but i think we are missreading the timeline. It is a bit confusing, but what the 1st post says as I read it.. he had the motor built over the winter of 09-10..as in say December 2009-Jan 2010. It was then on the dyno in the SPRING of 2010.. (few moths after the "winter of 09-10).
Just sayin..

 

even if after 1 full season of racing, a CBR600RR should not be down @10rwhp. sorry. A few yes, but not 10. 10 is a big number in the 600ss game.

 

Nor do I. What I am saying here is that booking more time to confirm a loss of power after a season of racing the engine is ludicrous.

 

May want to go look at the dyno charts posted as one is 111.4 RWHP and the other is 107.8 RWHP coming up with a difference of 3.8 RWHP.

From page two.

 

^^ 3.8 plus the 6.2 that a good ss build should produce=10hp

4 is understandable from a variations... 10 is much tougher to stomach