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Supersport Build = Loss of 8 HP

Discussion in 'Tech' started by kiggy74, Apr 25, 2011.

  1. dubguy85

    dubguy85 Well-Known Member

    He never posted the builder, however he straight copied and pasted from their website and it doesn't take more than 30 seconds investigating on who did the build according to their website and how he does a SS build.
     
  2. MELK-MAN

    MELK-MAN The Dude abides...

    wow.. i feel like a forum moderator here.. The dyno sheet your reading with a "website" addy on it, was posted by another person in "reference" to a point he was making. The OP did NOT post a dyno sheet that had a website listed on it that identified the shop. You can see this at the bottom of P1 of the thread, then kiggy posts on p2. Just sayin..Lets at LEAST keep some facts str8 :cool:
     
  3. Demented

    Demented Well-Known Member

    No, but the OP did copy this straight from the builder's site, which is what dubguy was referring to.
     
  4. dubguy85

    dubguy85 Well-Known Member

    WOW I feel like you don't know what you are talking about.. I was talking about this post

    •Remove cylinder head
    •Measure squish (piston to head clearance)
    •Clean combustion chamber
    •Disassemble cylinder head
    •Inspect/prep valves
    •Inspect valve seats
    •Check valve spring pressures
    •Set cam journal clearance
    •Machine gasket surface (angle or straight mill)
    •Reassemble head and install
    •Slot cam sprockets or install cam adaptors
    •Check and adjust valve clearances to spec
    •Degree cams to spec


    It's the exact word for word copied and pasted from his website. Not hard to put two and two together.
     
  5. MELK-MAN

    MELK-MAN The Dude abides...

    Ok, but i doubt anyone would have discovered that had it not been for someone else mentioning the builder/shop.. From there, yea, when you go to the site already knowing who to "google", you can see the info was copied/pasted. I mean seriously, how would you know it was copied pasted unless you went to the website.. To me it looked like he just typed in what was told was done. I also saw upon close inspection of the dyno sheet a phone #, but i mean come on.. He did pretty good about not stating a shop, or putting it in the title, etc. Give him SOME credit..
     
  6. dubguy85

    dubguy85 Well-Known Member


    Lets see.. He's from Dublin, Oh.. How many "Reputable" engine builders are there close to Dublin? Maybe 2. Then you look at a HUGE banner across the top of the wera forums screen and it says "Engine builds from $1200" and then you click on SS builds and the word for word what he posted pops up :rolleyes:

    Maybe I'm just smarter than "most people" but it took me 20 seconds to figure out who he was talking about.
     
  7. Demented

    Demented Well-Known Member

    Personally, I knew because I was looking at the shop's website in my never ending quest to find a place that at least sells APE tensioners and valve shims, not one or the other.

    Though it's not like people wouldn't be curious and start looking at known builder websites. This is the beeb after all. It's fueled by bullshit drama.
     
  8. MELK-MAN

    MELK-MAN The Dude abides...

    dubguy85.. so is the fact that he did or didn't post the shops name or info, directly OR indirectly, REALLY the question here? It looks like some are simply taking sides.. carry on :)

    Agree Demented. THe beeb, all drama.. all day.
     
  9. dubguy85

    dubguy85 Well-Known Member

    No, it isn't the question...

    I'm not sure what the question is anymore.. He clearly just made WAY more HP today becuase of a proper tune.. basically he got a build that was done right, road it for over a year, and then decided to get it properly tuned and still has nice hp gaines.

    Its just funny when he used the term "in over his head".. i know who did the build and I can't imagine him getting "in over his head" with a SS build.
     
  10. kiggy74

    kiggy74 As useful as an...

    I think I've gone more than out of my way to not make this thread about bashing the builder. There are a number of threads on the beeb that just out and out state "do not trust so and so", this isn't one of them. If you are googling shit to figure out who it was and stating the results here that's on you, not me. If you really want to protect the rep of the builder don't post shit about him.... Duh. As you can plainly see, I haven't.

    For those of you that are offended by the "over his head" statement you just need to get over it. I not making a comment on the guy's character. In fact I believe that I also stated that he was very thorough and did a number of things that I didn't ask for. But of course these statements aren't juicy for you so you've obviously omitted them from your comprehension. In the agreed time and budget we were not able to achieve the expected results. He told me it was his first 600rr of that model, call it what you want.

    The point of the thread was to get other opinions on things I can look into to solve the issue. If I sift through the 99% nonsense I've gotten a few good suggestions that I've already acted upon. The rest is typical BBS garbage from those that would prefer drama over reason. So i suggest that unless you have any constructive feedback as to how I can fix my bike you troll elsewhere.
     
    Last edited: May 11, 2011
  11. CephasGT

    CephasGT Track Day Dreamer

    I liked your thread, kiggy. Parts of it were even educational! :D
     
  12. kiggy74

    kiggy74 As useful as an...

    Wrong.

    Please don't make insinuations without having all the facts. This thread is about the bike, not the builder.
     
  13. bergs

    bergs Well-Known Member

    After watching this thread morph into its current state over the last few weeks I've come to the conclusion that this build was over kiggy's head.

    Carry on...

    :Pop:
     
  14. Lizard 1

    Lizard 1 Well-Known Member

    Tim, you stated that he also didn't go far enough to get it fixed. You compared it to a freaking hair cut for God's sake. Also, when discussing a builder and saying "In over his head", that implies he was not educated enough or qualified enough to do the task and therefore, not a guy to consider. We are standing up and saying that is BS.

    You don't get it, man. You will not sit back and look at what you said as being offensive. The builder was and that's enough for me. The point is that you could have simply omitted ANY comments and this would have just been as Melk stated - a newb coming on to the beeb and asking questions. Simple. But, you are the one that made the comments and it is totally insane that you feel saying a builder in over his head and then saying that he really didn't try and remedy the situation to your desires.

    That's what the issue is. Take away the BS between us. Take away what others have stated and look at what you stated about him. Think it over and see if being a builder and being mentioned as over his head isn't offensive and critical of him. If you do that, you MIGHT agree. But, I suspect that you won't based on hatred and not willing to agree with people that you dislike or dislike you. Hell, agree with one of the three or so folks saying the same thing vs. agreeing with me.
     
  15. Lizard 1

    Lizard 1 Well-Known Member

    Zing!! Winner, winner, chicken dinner!:up:
     
  16. kiggy74

    kiggy74 As useful as an...

    This might be the most reasonable statement you've ever made. I see where you're coming from, I understand your perspective. I will say for the last time that this thread was not intended to raise focus on the builder but to harvest suggestions as to what my next steps should. Obvously some history needed to be provided.

    I will go so far as to say that the statement regarding the builder's skill was irrelevant to my goal for the thread. I made the "over his head" statement as a possibly explanation as to why he wasn't able to help me further at the time. But that too is not relevant to the intent of trying to fix the bike. I don't know why he/we weren't able to get better results, whether it was something configured incorrectly, bad dyno numbers, clogged injectors, whatever... this is the process I'm working through. Of all these things the one thing I can't specific measure is the builder's skill in building bikes, so I shouldn't have commented on it.

    As far as the build being over MY head, of course it is. I don't deny it. Otherwise I would have done it all myself. But most average club racers aren't performing their own SS builds or tuning bikes without assistance. That's why we pay the most capable people we can find the money to do it for us, people who can get the most out of the bikes we have. This is what I'm trying to do.
     
    Last edited: May 11, 2011
  17. natedogg624

    natedogg624 Well-Known Member

    you guys are starting to make me think it's winter with all the drama-llama going on here.
     
  18. theJrod

    theJrod Well-Known Member

    The customer is always right.
     
  19. ed who?

    ed who? the opposite of eharmony.

    if you got 7 rwhp on a 600 by just mapping it then my god that thing must have been dangerously lean to point of you should have seen that in the dyno curve..Be sure to check your fuel filter/pump! The cbr's go out often and the filter gets clogged...then the pump follows. Honda wont sell you the filter on the 07+ bikes so keep it clean! You can always tell on the dyno when CBR pump is going (or filter clogged) they go VERY lean especially wfo above @9k...so if you were that lean i would really check the filter....clean it if dirty, then buy a spare pump to have.

    Congrats on getting it better, but 7 rwhp just from mapping it alone is pretty hard to believe but again at least your going in the right direction. best of luck :beer:
     
  20. ed who?

    ed who? the opposite of eharmony.

    no worries, no dog in your guys fight. just saying that if i build a CBR600RR SS bike that say on my DJ dyno makes @119rwhp on VP U4.4 even after a full season if i see even 3-4% drop on the dyno (same tire, pressure, temp, fuel, etc) then i start to do leak down..then asses further from there. as for new parts, well its no gsxr so the oem valves, springs and retainers are really long lasting in there..now if it was a gsxr 600 and he didnt replace valve springs or retainers than tisk tisk on him.... but still i find it hard to believe any "top level" shop/engine guy could not see how bad the oem valve job is on them and try to do a 3 angle or full radius valve job...most important part of a cylinder head (thus hp) is that tiny little area..funny how some spend SO much time porting heads and yet dont realize the valve seal/seat area is so critical. again too many numbers on this thread and im not familiar with a Dayton dyno.

    :beer:
     
    Last edited: May 11, 2011

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