2013 vintage rules

The only ride Charles will get from Jim is a ride at the end of his boot!

 

Sorry, I don't have anything that slow.

 

Okay Jimmy Triples, no more Mr. Nice Guy anymore, prepare for moto-doom.

 

On a more serious note if 250GP is not bringing the bikes out perhaps we could try a Formula 250 similar to what AHRMA runs as shown below. Rules are a little more liberal and it appears to have an interesting mix of machinery. Thoughts?

FORMULA 250:
Two-stroke twins up to 250cc, two-stroke singles to 360cc, Honda
CB350 twins and Honda CB350F fours. All motorcycles must be fully GP-kitted. The cutoff date is December 31, 1972. Like-design models also are permitted.
Bridgestone 175, 200
Bultaco, pre-1973 up to 360cc
Bultaco, 350cc AJR replicas
Can-Am, pre-1973 250 (57.5 mm stroke, aluminum or magnesium cases)
H-D/Aermacchi, pre-1973 (two-stroke)
Honda CB350K twin, CB350 four, CB400F four with original bore and stroke (.5mm overbore permitted)
Kawasaki A1R, 350 Bighorn single, F5, F9, S1
Maico 175cc air-cooled single
Montesa, pre-1973 up to 360cc
Ossa, pre-1973 250
Suzuki 250 X6, GTX, GT, T250, T200
Yamaha RD125, RD200, RD250, TD2, TD2B, TD3, TA250, TA125, RD56/TD1
“works special"


REQUIREMENTS AND MODIFICATIONS FOR FORMULA 250
a)
All machines must be no-compromise Grand Prix racers (i.e., clip-on or low, narrow handlebars; no lighting equipment or related brackets, except that factory-welded brackets may be retained if desired; no street equipment of any kind, including brackets). Electric starters allowed if originally equipped.
b)
All machines must be equipped with racing exhaust systems; silencers are required on two-strokes and encouraged on others.
c)
Any drum brakes (front or rear) of the period are permitted.
d)
One front rigid-mounted steel disc brake may be used on F-125 and F-250
machines. Calipers must be period type with a maximum of two pistons. Late-model alloy types are prohibited.
e)
Rims—Formula 250: Wheel rim diameter must be at least 18 inches and not exceed WM3 (2.15 inches) front and WM4.5 (2.75 inches) rear.
f )
Honda four-cylinder machines may use Keihin CR Special carburetors in all Formula classes. Maximum 26mm for CB350/400 fours in Formula 250.

 

From what I've seen AHRMA still has a fair turnout in that class but those who ride AHRMA on a more regular basis than I do should chime in here. Having a direct equivalent to their class would certainly encourage more of them to come to a WERA race - I think. Many of the bikes listed are already listed in WERA rules.

 

As long as the class does not race concurrently with GP350 and V1 it would be another class we could enter. Or is this something that would combine GP and V1 and replace both, combining classes and creating one larger grid?

Mark

 

No to new class or dropping a class. just performance index the entire class like F-250 into an existing class, like 500gp. Or novice prod lwt into 350gp, keeps it simple.

 

F250 is a great class. Its pretty much V1. Honda 350's Rd250's and Crussells Big Horn have been the class winners over the last few years. All of these are legal for V1. Sean also added the Honda 400f(to V1) a few years ago.

 

So maybe opening up the V1 rules to be more like F250 would get the grids a little fuller? Not a bad thing.

 

Sounds like a plan to me.

 

If you're offering, I'm ready to ride.

 

Doug, its all good we can talk here, I guess you did not see the

I was involved in the original rule change that increased the bore to a 57 mm max, it covered the DS7 and the RD250. Allowing both motors to go to a max bore of 57mm is a slightly less than 5% displacement increase above the standard rule, this is hardly a major change in the interest of an available piston. As MGMARK pointed out without the optional piston he is done on his current cylinders.

I posted the numbers in detail because I thought it might help quantify the actual change in displacement.

I am happy to know JE makes custom 4 stroke pistons that allow you to keep your bike on the track, have you ever tried to order a 2 stroke piston from them? I did, no go…..

Just for reference how long do your pistons last?

Maybe Wossner will start making a DS7 and RD250 pistons if and when they do this is a non-issue (they started making R5 pistons) until they or someone else in the 2 stroke piston business makes these it is an issue.

BTW the HP number is legit and should not frighten anyone, a piston port 250 is a great little motor. Having raced a water cooled version with a close ratio box back in the day I can assure you it takes a perfect setup and a flawless ride to get around on one. As regularly proven by the likes of you and guys like Buff Harsh it is not about peak HP.

 

Jim, I would LOVE to see one of those at the track bring it out!! I worked on an A7 based bike in about 77 or 78, Art Kowitz had a set of the factory 7R rotory valves, covers and carbs. Had ignition problems and never got it to run right before I ran out of patience and bought my TZ.

 

Wossner will do one off specials but it's pricey. Send me a piston and I'll get pricing for you.

To make a new piston a production item as I did with the triples requires an investment of about $5000.00. If you can convince me I can turn that much inventory over annually I'll make the investment.

Pistons for the Suzuki GT500 and GT750 are in production now and will be arriving shortly.

We'll continue to add more vintage pistons as long as the demand as noted above justifies it.

BTW, Wossner has been making R5 pistons for a number of years - they are not new.

 

Awesome!

 

^ this is correct except for the 400f part....its V2.

AHRMA F250 is almost word for word V1....at least as far as Honda 350's go.

V1 used to align more with AHRMA Sportsman, until V1 allowed disk.

Bring em out Jim!

 

You're right....brain fart!

 

A 400F like B Wells would put the 350's out of V1....IMO....it is interesting that they are listed, with limits, in F250 tho.

F250 has always been a fast class for Honda 350's.