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AMA/MOTOAMERICA Entry Level Class, KTM Cup

Discussion in 'General' started by SCHMITTY91, Nov 13, 2014.

  1. Mongo

    Mongo Administrator

    It is a thought for sure and something I'd love to see. We've done stuff like that one our end with AMA before DMG bought it (and tried with DMG but were shot down repeatedly) with our 600 class winners getting a license and entry fees for the following season, second and third got something too but on a sliding scale.
  2. Mongo

    Mongo Administrator

    No. However I'm basing my guess on reality and a wee bit of experience instead of my hopes and dreams for my kid. KTM is going to be spending a lot of money already, they can't afford to do that and pay what it would take to put that class on TV. That kind of support will have to come from multiple sources which means the other OEM's and they're going to support classes with their machinery in them. Spec series are good but have some obvious drawbacks on that end of things. Either way if there is TV I'd fully expect there to be highlights and some face time for the winner/top 3.
  3. backcountryme

    backcountryme Word to your mother.

    Yeah, that is awesome. We do a youth program with our mini series where we provide an bike, gear, and all race fees for a deserving kid who's parents can't really afford the costs. It isn't quite the same, but it is still focused on developing youth talent and love for the sport.
  4. panthercity

    panthercity Thread Killa


    But we might learn from both of them.
  5. Mongo

    Mongo Administrator

    Absolutely - but straight emulation won't work when you're trying to promote to a totally different audience.
  6. panthercity

    panthercity Thread Killa

  7. assjuice cyrus

    assjuice cyrus Well-Known Member

    Wouldn't Dorna benefit from having this class on tv? Almost like in the nascar or sports world. You be come a fan on a collage player or truck series driver and end up following them through the ranks.
  8. Mongo

    Mongo Administrator

    Absolutely - but who are you going to get to pay for that long term goal of possibly watching one or two of these kids on TV in the big leagues in 5-10 years? Dorna isn't going to pay for that for all of those years on the hope of a potential return. Advertisers need to see a return now on their money. People don't invest in TV to maybe be a benefit down the road.

    Considering the largest football stadiums in the country are college stadiums you can't really compare it to following a college player through the pro ranks. College ball is as if not more popular than pro. Night and day for us. Truck series is a better analogy but even then, those races on TV are making money right now and those advertisers don't care if the kid on screen ever gets a full Winston Cup ride (yep, dating myself on purpose :D)
  9. nigel smith

    nigel smith Well-Known Member

    The new class is pretty much guaranteed to improve American road racing. I could care less about Europe because I live here. As heretical as it may sound, I have no desire to compete overseas. A bunch of kids on the grid in our national series bodes well for all of our futures. We'll grid up if we can afford it, which, realistically speaking, is unlikely.
  10. TrackStar

    TrackStar www.trackstar1.com

    I'm not going to argue the merits of the class anymore. I know whos in Europe, I know how they got there and I know how long they have been there. It's a far cry from the potential our riders had. I have had people tell me from the first time I put my kid on the track I was doing it wrong and it hasnt stopped since. Seems to be working out pretty well so far... people who say it cant be done or that it has to be done a certain way wear me out. Try something different, anything... see if it will work. Why are people so afraid to fail? Why are people afraid to give something 100% even if there only a 1% chance of success? Wayne and KRAVE are doing it and I will back it.

    How far? I'll keep going as long as it's what he wants to do and is still having fun doing it. Be it with MotoAmerica or back Club racing if he isnt competitive. I'm figuring between 50K and 75K for the first year. We are buying 2 bikes.

    We have both dealt with winning and failure. Its racing, he's been doing it 9 years. He's not new to either side of the deal. We went to Cali last weekend to run a new track and see how he would pick it up. Got his ass kicked the first day. Kept his head down and worked and got within 1.5 seconds of the fastest lap of the race on Sunday. He went home with improvement over the weekend and was really excited to go learn another track. I felt it was money well spent, he had fun... we brought home zero trophies but lots of smiles.

    I'm not delusional, he's not the fastest kid in the country. He's not going to get a ride in Moto3 in the next 2 years. Hell, I dont know that he will ever even score a ride on a 3rd rate WERA Endurance Team :D but as long as he wants to do it and shows improvement and is competitive in the Series he's running we will do whatever it takes to keep going. We do this because we have a shit load of fun doing it. If we can do it at a high level and still have fun then why not? Its just money, it comes and goes. Its getting spent somewhere.
  11. HPPT

    HPPT !!!

    Let me help with some perspective, if I may. I probably get more racing on TV then 99% of you guys on the BBS. UK, Spain, Italy, Australia… So much that I can barely keep up on some weekends. I have never seen a Red Bull Rookies Cup race on TV. I don't know the names of any of the kids in that series and most years, I don't even know who won at the end until they show up in Aki Ajo's garage the next year.
  12. Lots of good discussion here. I don't think this is going to be total game changer and it will help. If the big leauges in Europe are where you want to be you need to be there yesterday. The chosen bike is not the best but it is good. The BSB series announced the same class same bike. Honda or Moriwaki probably won't put the "old school" by camparison to a current spec Moto 3 bike back into production.... One thing I see that is for certain. Many of these kids have already been racing each other for years with WERA, other clubs, and on cart tracks. Most of them know each other. They are going to be stoked to see each other in one place and race. There is going to be more heart and high five's and great raciing than we have seen in years. I think they just might be "the show".
  13. phen22

    phen22 Member

    Mongo - You have seen more kids grow up in racing than almost anyone. And you have seen the downturn in the sport at every level over the past six year. Yes, there is racing for the kids if they buy a bike and show up.

    The issue of late has been What bike? that the path is muddy. I remember an f2 race on my SV in 2010 at Autoclub getting mobbed into T3 by Lex, Andre, Daytona, Alonso, Linders, Villasenor, Lancaster and Gilbert [Lucky for me Uribe, Matter, and Aquino opted not to start]. There was a grid of kids on the same bike running WERA and USGPRU. The choice was simple.

    Last year when Ruben turned 14 I had to decide what to put him on. There was no one running MD250s or RS125s – ghost town. But I could find a grid of fast adults on the Ninja so that’s where we went – competition breeds excellence . G2 put G3 on a 125 shortly after that. Ashton Wright went to the MD250 after that. And Swensgard is on either the RS or the MD. Up north in AFM there are a few kids on 250s and some on 600s with a dead cylinder to make it a 3 cylinder 450. Kelly had to put his kid on an r6 to find someone to race against. The main reason I am excited about the KTM is that I hope it brings clear direction and we can start getting kids at club races [WERA, AFM, CVMA, MWGP, CCS, etc.] racing on the same machines. Like it was back before 2011.

    The fast kids you talk about now came up with a clear path. They have a clear path in Europe. I can’t wait to see another collection of talent like that 2010 F2 grid.
  14. zrx12man

    zrx12man Captain Amazing

    Great post. This is where things changed for us, years ago. We met people who were 2 steps ahead of us, who told us what we would actually need to do to move forward instead of the old approach of "doing our best and hoping for a break".
  15. leviathan

    leviathan Well-Known Member

    Try SocalTrackdays. Open format. Not for newbs. Yea still some street folks who go a bit slower but you can't get solid laps in. Especially the last 2 hours of the day, it's always sparse crowd and ppl are tired out and heading home.
  16. Tortuga

    Tortuga Well-Known Member

    That it the correct attitude and a realistic optimism for the KTM class.

    The goal of parents putting their kids into the KTM class should be to have their kids in the KTM class. Full stop.

    If you want your kid to race in Europe it's pretty easy to do (especially if you have a race budget of $50 to $75K); simply go to Europe and race.
    You will find many teams willing to provide a competitive bike and all the trimmings including mechanics, spares, tires, transportation, storage, and maintenance.
    All you have to do is show up and race.

    In the Spanish CEV there are teams who will provide you with either a Moto3, Moto2, 600ss, or superbike. So if your goal is Europe and your budget allows, the US KTM class is a waste of both time and money as I assure you it will not provide easier or cheaper access to Europe. It just won't. Seriously, stop.

    NOW, if your goal is to have your kid race at a pro level in the US on a spec bike, the KTM class is perfect. It may even provide an ideal stage for budding young talent to showcase their skills as well as a possible marketing tool for sponsors, etc etc etc.

    Currently, however, the opportunities for racers at any level to actually earn a paycheck are extremely limited. The idea that a kid can compete in a spec series and be magically transported to the land of fat contracts with world championship teams is pure fantasy. Unfortunately, it is a fantasy that untold number of families have been bankrupted while chasing.

    Bottom line; the KTM class will be great and is a step in the right direction (though the age cap is just plain stupid), but it is only a tiny step on a very long road to rebuilding professional roadracing in America.
  17. Mongo

    Mongo Administrator

    The path hasn't changed - the issue is people talking themselves into and out of all sorts of things.

    The best path I see is still start small and work larger. Doesn't matter if it's a Ninja 250 or not but I still think a Moriwaki or 125 should be in there between the 250 and a bigger machine. Then move to something with more power and as good handling, then keep that progression.

    There have occasionally been huge grids of 125's but that really isn't as true as people always think it is. The Haydens ran their 125's against adults on fast Clubman bikes and HW Twins. The main thing they did is no matter the grid size they pushed themselves - has anyone ever seen Earl when the boys are on track without his stopwatches? Hell, he times them in the backyard even now.

    People have got to stop blaming the series or the economy, stop talking to each other so much they go in circles, stop waiting for some miracle class. They nee to start putting in laps and pushing themselves, they need to travel and get a feel for what it takes to run nationally before putting out the budget for pro racing (and no that does not mean run our series, even if you find a schedule of club races that work just like Kelly went to CVMA last weekend). Things like that are the path, the same path that has worked and honestly the same path that will continue to work no matter what pro classes are out there.
  18. regularguy

    regularguy Always Krispy

    I blame you :D

    When are you going to announce what WERA classes the 390, R3, and 300s are going?????
  19. Mongo

    Mongo Administrator

    I just saw the CCS press release - sorry Eric but that shit is hilarious.

    I don't need to announce anything, we have had classes for those machines since WERA has existed.

    Now, I am going to spread things out a touch with an ESB but that's not exactly new, it's the same finessing we always do with new models coming out. I'm also not going to mess with the D rules until we get more of a handle on what each of the machines can do. Unlike the CCS rules we won't be changing the SS specs to allow for full on Superbikes (for more of an idea of what I mean do some research on Ed Keys "Supersport" SV :D).
  20. regularguy

    regularguy Always Krispy

    So they will go in ESB and status quo for 250s in ESS or are they all going to D super?

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