Thoughts on V6HW V7HW class structure

Dann, Bike looks great would be nice to see it on the grid after it's 14 year nap.

 

Carb Srad 600 should be what he is talking about.
that handles the yr models

 

Ok so here I go sticking my nose in this mess.
How many on here actually raced 600s or 750 from 94 to 2000?
Because is did race 600s and raced against 750 till 99
The 600 carb Srad is not to far a leap in performance compared to bikes we have on grid in MWV7
In Fact I raced against Nicky Hayden's 600 Carry Andrew built bike at CMRA in 2011
As far as R6 98 and Kawi 98 they are a big step up and shouldn't be allowed in MWV7.
Now you want to fill HWV7 let Srad 600 Carb in and they can race up.
Also we have to consider people wanting to actually spend money to build a bike for these classes.
Having bikes that are already racing another series helps but then you have to hope they come race.
I'm not interested in putting my VFR back on the track when I have a perfectly good F3 to race in Wera?
I budget for races and have for yrs so not interested in having to haul and race 2 bikes.
I've proposed different ways to grow the grid before.
I'm glad others have stepped up to help get more racers on grid in vintage classes.
As somebody who has raced both V7 classes since I came back I can see where letting some of these bikes in will hurt my chances at long tracks.
I'd say look at Burns lap times to see what a YZF 750 can do as a benchmark.
But hopefully it will put more people on the grid and ultimately this is what's best for Wera vintage.

Steven

 

Look and see how many HW bikes would be on grid if 600s didn't bump up?
This is a problem for both classes, low entries and trying to get more on grids.
Last Yr no one even showed up to Race MWV7 at GNF.
We had 2 entries in HWV7 at GNF and 4 in MW and 3 guys who raced MW all yr.
And Rain had nothing to do with this. No one else showed up to race.
And as Eboz has said V6 HW is either him or Ray all yr.
We as vintage racers need to work on a solution to get more racers interested or it will go away.
These classes are affordable and bikes are cheap to buy for 600s anyways.
But if we don't start now who knows where it be in another yr.

Steven

 

Great idea to broaden the classes, growing the grid is always better! For those that are worried about a bigger bike having an advantage, small track, big track, or whatever, you should think
about the challenge. With WERA smaller bikes have always been welcome to bump up a class. I use to practice on my RS125 in the 600 expert class. I raced my 95 ZX6R to a V7HW championship
in 2012....You wont get faster racing the same caliber bike but you will get faster trying to keep up with a faster bike IMO.

 

Those are some piss poor entries....SAD....If i had a bike and the extra to spend on the event I would of came out!
With only 0-5 on the grid at most events who cares if a 96 GSXR600 or 750 is allowed in....Id rather race 20 than 2....

When I came out to race in 1995 there were 3 wave starts for D SUPERBIKE NOVICE.....!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
First race at Roebling on my RGV250 I was 21st out of 22 or so and thought no way was i getting to front....
With some help from my late friend Steve Green I was 4th going into T4 off the start and finished 3rd! What a great sport and friend who took the time to help me! I had ran off the track in Saturdays practice 3 times and told Steve it just wasnt for me. He coached me that weekend, showed me gearing, tire pressures, and suspension basics and thats the result of a good friend, on the podium!

 

I feel like I have a dog in this fight.
I came back to racing after almost 20 years away and brought my old bike, 93 GSXR750. I only had another bike in the class once all season. I am all for getting more bikes on the grid but I will say that even back in 96 my 93 just couldnt keep up with the 96 GSXR and by 99 I was so outclassed that I stopped till I could get a competitive bike. Now I didnt even bring the 750 to the last race because Im not racing anyone, just riding around. I cant keep up with the newer 750 since V7HW are mixed in with the B superbikes, and no one else is in the class V7HW. I bought a 600RR mid season so I could at least be in a bigger class and semi competitive (Senior Superbike and V8MW) I would rather be in a race even if its for last than win 1st of a empty class. There are a few guys that say they are getting a old GSXR/bringing back their old bikes and taking them racing in 2020.
The other end of it is parts are hard to find. Not many companies still make parts for them and I had to pay a premium price for everything. I have more in to just getting my 750 ready to go back to the track than buying the 600RR. For me the cost to run a 90's bike is higher than a newer bike in a already expensive hobby just to ride around alone. Doesn't make a lot of sense.
I know I dont have any answers to get more bikes on the grid but I do know I am not going to race in a empty class next year if that means V7HW is dropped so be it.

 

The honest part is we all have a dog in this fight.
My goal has always to get more people in V7 classes.
I even own a 97 ZX6R sitting in corner of shop.
Eboz is trying to hopefully get more bikes in V7 class.
Hell throw out ideas.
Me I look at if a bike will dominate and make what's already out there obsolete.
That's the base of Vintage.
I know what a better bike a 97 ZX6R bike is than my F3 because I've raced these bikes when new and agaisnt GXSR 97 600 and 750s.
750 was a high game changer but I did beat them on ZX6R I had.
But when new every fast guy had one.
This is not the case now.
I also look at what the cost of buying a bike and prepping it to race would cost.
As people pointed out the cost is more than a newer bike to purchase.
But what's good is vintage rules dont change so you dont have to keep putting money into these bikes like you would a newer model.
And lap times are not lap records times so you can be competitive.
And I know where a few 600s are for sale.

Steven

 

Looking at my proposal I don't think anyone would have an issue if you raced your 93 in V6HW/Next Gen1 class. It's currently Pre-92 but as an oddball 3 year production bike pretty sure no one would complain. So if that's something you would like to see then propose it. So that would give you V6HW as your core class and then you can bump to V7/Next Gen 2 as your bump up. Your bike would be competitive in the new structure where it probably isn't currently. Current V7MW would still be able to bump up as they do now.

 

Wow after reading all this I am bummed that rebuilding my 1986 GSXR 750 wont be competitive to race in vintage. I am wondering what to do.

 

Honestly a 750 has never been competitive in HWV6
I think I'm only title winner 750 in V6 and that was due to points and my main competitor blew up 2 bikes and never made the grid in 01.
Now I'd be happy to help share what it will take to make enough power without going 1100 motor.
Eboz has the chassis setup to make them handle.
But they take effort to go fast on one for sure.
Can it be done? Yes it can.
But come on out and have fun anyway.

Steven

 

How about a V7 Formula Extreme for all the lost bikes?

V7 HW would be essentially the reprise of WSBK in that era
V7 FE

Wonder how much pie we would need to buy Mongo to get that to fly!

 

That is where you are wrong grass hopper. In the current structure V6HW you have to race against 150+hp 7/11's or with the new structure maybe a healthy 135 Mark Junge built 89/92 750. This only affects WERA and not AHRMA and most of the people on this discussion you will probably never, meet nor race against. Up in your region you will have to race Chris Onwiler and his 88 GSXR 750 and potentially Dann Clark if he ever gets his running and Mark Junge at MID Ohio VMD. People quit racing V6HW on 750's in the past because it became a HP war, this eliminates this restraint. Chris, you know if we wanted to build class winning machinery we surely wouldn't have started with an 86 GSXR. In all honesty I believe it will lead to better racing in V6 because I'm fairly confident the AHRMA Ducati Tribe probably won't want to put the extra laps on those engines. I do know for fact that the GSXR's of John Burden and Brad Coleman will gladly come and race as well as the folks on the ZX7's and hopefully are new friend on the 93GSXR. Then here's where it gets interesting, when you bump up to V7 it's a whole nuther level of whoop ass. First of all, years ago it wasn't uncommon for a V7MW bumping up HW to win the overall, AKA Kevin Calloway, Chuck D, Norm Hammond, Scott Lindsey. Brian Nelson, Lance Yeager. If it's about winning a championship or having a number one plate in WERA all you have to do is every round in the North Central Region and finish first or second and come and win it all at the GNF. We should have enough competitors down here that we will be stealing points from one another. So if you showed up with max points you could win a title and most of us southern boys would say great job, congratulations. You'd have a much better chance against me on my 750 than my 1100

 

Ooops didn't mean to leave that nitrous line exposed in the first picture. How do I delete that picture. LOL

 

OK how many of you jokers actually looked. LOL

 

This list plus the 93-95 water cooled GSXR 750. This class has now been active for 5-6 years so if anyone said they were building a bike for this class it should be near completion or have been completed. I know of 6 that will be done this winter in the SouthEast. Like I said this would become the new V6HW so current V6HW people racing current V6HW, AKA Ray Hickman and I, would then be required to bump our 7/11's into the newly proposed V7HW. Tries to maximize the number of entrants of people who have built or are building across two organizations.

 

John, CCS currently runs a vintage class that 2001 GSXR 1000 and 98 R1 are eligible I think it's called Premier Vintage. I'll keep an eye on it to see if it grows. If there's interest perhaps later we can discuss where it best fits. But for no my opinion is NO in V7 especially with bikes as dominant as the R1 in the era. Basically everyone would have to buy a bike and build. I'm trying to increase exposure of bikes that are being built or already being raced.

 

AFM in Nor Cal has a pre 2001 class called Super Dino which does have a decent turn out

 

Premier is for 1992 and older last I read in the RB. 1st gen R1 would be classic unlimited

 

That actually would work well. The 93 gets outrun (with me riding it) by the ZX and TZ even when it was new. let alone the late 90's RC51,Ducs,ZX9, even TL100R was a hard one. This year I did finish 1st in the North Central V7HW and only because I showed up and finished. Wanted to go to Barber and Mid Ohio but couldnt get the time off work