First female enrolled to BUDS

Women can pee standing up.

That they don't is more a function of them generally being the ones that clean the bathroom.

 

Well...the Ranger stuff had a bunch of grumbling. Sooo...SEAL tryouts would get crazy if it was publicized the same.

 

From 2015 http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/military/sdut-navy-seal-women-standards-2015sep27-story.html

From 2016 http://www.businessinsider.com/10-r...-trainee-will-face-2016-2/#1-media-scrutiny-1

From 2017 http://www.military.com/daily-news/2017/02/15/a-year-in-no-female-seal-applicants-few-specops.html

The Navy is closely monitoring the interest of female applicants. In fact, Naval Special Warfare Command is eyeing one Reserve Officer Training Corps member who's interested in the SEALs, and another woman who has yet to enter the service but has expressed interest in becoming a special warfare combatant craft crewman, a community even smaller than the SEALs with a training pipeline nearly as rigorous.


This was hardly under the radar, nor some casual effort.

 

Women and men are not the same. You will have those that will try to compare two extremes (a strong woman to a weak man), but that's not really a fair comparison of the population. Because the same could be said for the amount of weak women to the average strength of a man, which is far, far more common than the strong woman/weak man comparison.

I find it interesting that the over whelming majority of active duty women (or prior) I know have zero desire for combat role stuff. You MIGHT have one or two women out there that might be able to keep up with the average SF guy. Might. Is it really worth rewriting the entire DoD policy for one or two people? No.

 

This is a classic reply from someone that's never served. Not meant in a derogatory way, but meant in the fact that you aren't considering the multitude of factors involved.

A few decades ago, female Marines all lived in a single set of barracks surrounded by barbed wire at Lejeune. When you went out to the field, you pissed in the woods and shit in wag bags.

So now you want to bring females into the equation. Well, good luck to you once the general population finds out that you're letting females shit in wag bags next to males in the woods. Now you need porta johns. So now you need extra man hours from the motor t pool to haul out the shitters. Now you need the logistics guys to procure said heads and upkeep them. Now you need twice the number of heads, but since 90% of the Marine Corps is male, you have all these heads that are untouched by 90% of base and get used 10% of the time. That is one example of many of the increased logistics that went underway to integrate females more into the military.

Aside from the tangibles, you have the intangibles of having women thrown into the mix with men. I could go on, but really it's quite pointless because only those that have been there get it, and if you've never been, you'll never get it. I know a lot of people that think women should be integrated into the combat roles. None of those people have first hand experience. They absolutely have a role to play (FET's, Lioness, etc come to mind) but the 03 field ain't one of them.

 

You're absolutely right, in an ideal world it shouldn't matter. We live in the regular shitty world though. The political pressure will assure we're wasting resources to integrate females for no additional benefit. Why integrate women into the infantry? Now you're just going to spend 2-3x more per female infantryman than a male, and all you get is the same level of capability. It's a waste of resources. The job of the military is to destroy our enemies at the least possible cost to us. If you're Israel and you have a tiny ass population of 5 million people, it makes sense to utilize women because you have zero choice if you want an effective combat force. We have probably the equivalent number of military age males as their entire population graduating from high school every freaking year. We don't need female manpower. Unless they provide a unique capability or are more capable than males for the task, we're wasting money, time and lives on needless political bullshit. Women apparently make excellent fighter pilots and in some respects can be more desirable than men from what I understand, that's where they should be pushed, not infantry where they aren't giving us additional benefit.

I always like to look to the future. In the not so far future our infantry soldiers will sport neuroprosthetics, genetic and surgical enhancements as well as all manner of ridiculous tech to make them superhuman. Not to mention power armor and a bunch of other shit. When that happens, gender will largely be irrelevant and I'll support recruiting females for the cyborg infantry. Assuming I'm still alive. Until then, keep them out, the cost to benefit ratio is too high.

 

Everything should be a factor in determining combat readiness, gender included. Only someone with zero military experience would say otherwise.

 

This is the entire point. x100000000.

Spot on.

 

I'm just curious... can anyone point out a post where Mongo ever said something akin to, "Your logical arguments have convinced me that you were right, and I was wrong."

I'd bet there's at least ten of these for every instance of the above:

 

The fact that you are inherently unable to recognize the logic behind an opposing viewpoint does not automatically invalidate said viewpoint. Perhaps on this one subject you might consider that the opinions of those who have been there and done that outweigh your own "expertise".
We have been over this ad infinitum, but if you don't think that the effect that the inclusion of women might have on high stress, small group dynamics is even a factor worthy of consideration, your understanding of human nature is in need of refinement.
I await, with some anticipation, your next tortuous explanation of how neither you nor I really said what we said, nor meant what we meant.

 

I will readily admit it when we are on common ground. I take no satisfaction from winning three percent of a debate.