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Brake then gas then turn

Discussion in 'General' started by Ra.Ge. Raptor, Jul 16, 2019.

  1. turner38

    turner38 Well-Known Member

    Finally watched the video. Taken in context his comments are fine. He is talking to new riders trying to cope with a racetrack for the first time. Nothing at all wrong with them riding through the corners with maintenance to light throttle and learning to feel how the motorcycle reacts. Far better than novice group riders trying to brake to thier perceived apex and cleaning out another rider....

    Absolutes when it comes to riding technique, suspension setup or most anything else is foolish and as likely to be wrong as they are right in different situations.
     
    Gorilla George likes this.
  2. JCW

    JCW Well-Known Member

    I think someone is forgetting that the faster way around a corner or racetrack is not the most physically stable chassis position.
    Frequently, you are putting the bike is a less stable chassis attitude to maximize what you have.
    So, while a little gas way before the apex is safe and stable, there are grids full of racers that would disagree with you that it is the fastest way around a corner. Mainly because you will be the slowest to the apex.

    On the other hand, I think it is also easy to forget that the practice of trail-to-just-before-the-apex scenario is an ideal. When you are on your game, yeah, it feels the fastest and most responsive. Problem is, most of us (non racers) aren't there yet. A lot don't even carry excess speed into a corner to even know was trailing is. The ones that do, most are done well before the apex. Then what? In that situation in conjuction with having seen the apex and the exit line, adding a little throttle is the most appropriate thing to do. It's so obvious in practice.

    The language/syntax that he uses is garbled as he is trying to create a catch phrase for the internet.
     
  3. stangmx13

    stangmx13 Well-Known Member

    some corners are so long that its not possible to brake that deep and hold the brake on that long. but it would be faster if those were possible. and for short late apex corners, I def hold the brake as far as I can. T9 at Fontana is a fun one where you can literally turn completely around before letting go of the brake.

    considering that the first word in the title of this thread is "brake", y aren't u talking about braking...
     
  4. Ra.Ge. Raptor

    Ra.Ge. Raptor wanna_be_fast

    I think we can all agree that learning something to go fast only to unlearn it in order to go faster, delays your learning curve and increases the chances of a fall.
    There are schools or/and riding coaches that do a great job.
     
    Gino230 and KWyman133 like this.
  5. Mot Okstef

    Mot Okstef Scrolling all day long on RRW.com

    I'm not quite sure what you're trying to say here. Even if it's a blind corner, don't most fast racers still accelerate through the corner even if it's blind? To Dave's point, the track is predictable in the fact that you know some blue hair won't be backing out of her driveway in front of you, so once you learn the track and know which way the turn goes you accelerate at the same point each lap even if you can't see the exit. :confused:
     
    Gorilla George likes this.
  6. Yep, you don’t have to see the exit to know it’s there, and that you need to be WFO before you get there.

    At Barber, it seems like damn near every corner you are either tipping in on the brakes, or hammering on the gas, without being able to see where you will end up.

    You just have to know “if I brake till here, start pouring on the gas and standing the bike up here, my tires will clip the curbing on exit over there”.
     
    Mot Okstef likes this.
  7. condon66

    condon66 Member well known

    All Im saying is, Dave is making a general statement that is generally correct. Yes, lots of circumstances can change but, it's still generally correct. I think people are taking what he's saying as though he's telling the fastest way around every corner of every track in the world and he isn't.
     
    Last edited: Jul 18, 2019
    Gorilla George likes this.
  8. condon66

    condon66 Member well known

    Again, I understand that. But in the video I believe his intention is that he is speaking in general knowledge terms to relatively inexperienced riders.
     
  9. condon66

    condon66 Member well known

    My answer to that question is in my words you quoted.:D
     
  10. Mot Okstef

    Mot Okstef Scrolling all day long on RRW.com

    Then he should be giving them real world knowledge that if you know the turn goes right at the top of a blind turn (to Broome's example of Barber, let's say turn 4) then you know at which point you need to accelerate, knowing where the turn goes.

    Telling a newbie to not accelerate when you can't see the exit is a bit counterproductive to teaching someone how to go fast around a racetrack, newbie to not.
     
  11. condon66

    condon66 Member well known

    He didn't say that.
     
  12. Mot Okstef

    Mot Okstef Scrolling all day long on RRW.com

    You said...

    So the assumption to a newbie would be "if you can't see the exit then don't accelerate" when the better advice would be "once you learn the turn you will know where to start accelerating". The goal is to always accelerate through the corner when you're done with your braking, whether it's a blind corner or not.
     
  13. GixxerBlade

    GixxerBlade Oh geez

    Do you brake all the way to the apex?
     
  14. condon66

    condon66 Member well known

    I understand that. And yes, you got me on my own words but, again, he isn't implying things the way it's being picked apart. Yes, I agree that a newbie could take it the wrong way.
     
  15. Ra.Ge. Raptor

    Ra.Ge. Raptor wanna_be_fast

    Guys...
    The only true acceleration happens when you can take away lean angle. There are blind corners where you can start accelerating because you know where your exit apex is but the general consensus is that you can take away lean angle when you "see" your exit.
    I'm talking about true, hard acceleration not a 2 mile speed increase
     
  16. ekraft84

    ekraft84 Registered User

    We should combine this forum with the Trackday Junkies FB group. The results would be spectacular.
     
    Dano711, Circacee, Gino230 and 8 others like this.
  17. Wheel Bearing

    Wheel Bearing Professional low sider

    Nowhere in that video did he mention anything about foot anchors.
     
  18. Wheel Bearing

    Wheel Bearing Professional low sider

    TDJ Unleashed is by far better. :D
     
  19. pickled egg

    pickled egg Tell me more

    Those are for experts only. Sheesh. :rolleyes:
     
    Gorilla George likes this.
  20. stangmx13

    stangmx13 Well-Known Member

    pretty much. if its an exit corner, ill brake to a little before the apex and get on the gas early. if its an entry corner, I may brake past the apex. if the corner is long and I must hold constant speed for a bit, ill brake as far as possible. whenever I don't do this, im either slower or I tuck the front.
     

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