Another 350gp questions

why cant i edit??!! i meant to say the bracing doesnt do much.

argh!

jc

 

Joe the point is that the current rules do not allow bracing, you seem to keep missing that....you heard it earlier....there is no need to change it, you just interpret it incorrectly. We could clarify to make it clearer, which is what I'm proposing....but right now....today....frame bracing is not allowed. Thats the way it is sir.....deal with it!

This statement here.. are people benefitting from doing it enough you are saying there is a benefit.....how much is not quantified....but it doesnt matter, because the offical interp was clarified.

Rosko, there are ZERO braced frames in 350GP down here.....the wera rules support that.....your groups approach to frame bracing is not supported anywhere by the WERA rules......or the USCRA rules for that matter...and USCRA are more conclusive then WERA's....you guys arent even following your own rules!....that just cracks me up!

Hey, I'm already 2007 Natl champ....on a REAL stock bike....bring some stock bike down here and lets run em fella's!

As far as intakes for carbs.....I use stock rubber stacks from a stock airbox.

Joe may have not known any bettter, thats possible I guess....But that doesnt change this:

TODAY Frame Bracing is not legal in WERA 350GP, on a Honda 350....EVEN IF NO RULES CHANGE this week!......deal with it boys!

I'll post a list of the things we have discussed over the weekend.....I have no intentions of listing every gasket. I'll have about 5 things to add to the Mods Allowed, and 1 to add to the limitations.....it'll be pretty straightforward.

I've enjoyed it boys!

 

to that i would answer, look at buffs bikes, then look at tex's. how many more clues do you need!!??

the gigantic carbs should be a pretty big hint. count the v1 bikes running cv carbs, then get back to me.

i dont think the 2 pieces of metal are the only clue. i will always look for carbs. a 130 rear....with only a small handful, at best, of braced frames, and even you guys have admitted there are none in the south, i dont think its an issue. and like i said, i will always look for carbs as the real sign. youd be nuts to run a v1 bike with stock carbs. i dont think my bike has an advantage over even other cb's other than the fact its lighter than most, due to everything, not just shaving the frame, and the fact its fresh. i remember watching tex walk past me on his new cb and thought to myself, wtf does he have in that thing. now all he does is get in the way!

there is nothing guaranteeing that just because a frame is braced, its a v1 bike. you cant see that on the track anyway. i still say carbs.

as far as the budget goes, like i said before, i didnt have access to a welder when i built my first bike. so it got nothing. most everything i made for it. or had made for cheap. a seat, clipons, stock brake, sawed off header pipes, it was bare bones. sure, there were guys with bikes like mine out there. there were also guys out there with big $$$ cb's. but it just so happens i have access to several very good welders now, so i used them. i didnt pay for it, they did it free because they are friends. alot of my bike was done by me, or free. i paid for paint. (super cheap, thanks steve d') i paid for bodywork,(cheap again, tannermatic) i got my pvl from buff, i bought a tach. i bought wheels. i had a valve job, and i paid to have it powdercoated. everything else, i did. all the machine work. all of the assembly, dryfitting, motorbuilding. i even built my rear wheel and traded a front end for my gt750 drum with rim. i even rode someone elses bike for a year because mine was in the throws of death. yeah, i bought new nuts and bolts, and parts. it took years of collecting junk. it is always about $$$. any kind of racing. sure if i had to pay to have the frame welded, i would have had less $$$ for something else. it would have just taken that much longer to get it out there. cuz i was building what i wanted. thats the great thing about the class, you can still ride and have a great race with other people on those bikes. i sunk some cash into my bike, sure, but im not winning. im certainly not running away from every other cb out there. for that matter, tex and i had a fantastic race last time at summit. (i think i beat him, i cant even remember). but my motor is fresher than any ones, other than maybe steven barbers, and my bike is lite. thats all it really has going for it.

jc

 

Joe, Ill read the rest when I get home, but I'm not contesting carbs....I agree there.

Your bike looks mechanically like Buffs, which is a V1 bike, so your point is sir?

 

see, your not getting my point. i dont think it needs to be changed because i see no benefit to it. no benefit to changing the rule or clarifying it, or whatever. i dont see a bunch of cbs running away from the gp grid. at least not up here. none that have any kind of modified frame. if that were the case, then i think the rules should be addressed to even things up. i dont know that it makes any difference. i cant prove it with my bike. i know that. the rules, as far as i read them, mentions nothing about bracing. for or against. and as long as it is in print, in the rulebook, that way, i will interpret it that way. as far as something in a thread about not addressing it, not doing it, well, thats in a thread. the rules are in the book. the book is what people get. i hardly read the board honestly, and this is the most ive ever posted here. if you can show me, exactly where it clearly says, right now, or last year, or the prior years, where is says i can not brace, weld, cut off, or modify my frame, i will see it that way. but the fact is, it does not. you cant deny that. im not going to say the intent wasnt there. but that doesnt count. its whats on paper that counts. again, just my opinion.

i wasnt complaining about your intakes. i was saying even adding something as simple as velocity stacks could be and in my opinion, would be illegal. do i think its making another rider go that much faster than me? no. would i protest that? no. just because i know its not enough to make a big difference.

i guess i just dont get your motive to making a change to the rules as it stands. i guess i dont see your issue with it. it seems like a small thing that is pretty much a moot point that obviously does not apply to you. to clarify the rule, or make a new one.

if youre national champion, on a "stock bike", what are you complaining about anyway? do you really think were that much faster with the mods?? i gotta tell ya, we're not. if you think it does, weld a couple of braces to your bike and see if you pick up 2 secs. at least before you assume it makes such a big difference, to justify your opinion, you should know. because none of its been proven to me.

sorry youre taking it so hard. like i said, we as group up here dont have these issues. its only up to the next guy on the grid to make light of rules infractions. and it just doesnt happen here. maybe were just a nicer happier place.

see you at summit.

jc

 

I didn't say we ran braced frames, we don't. I just said we aren't anal about it. Our attitude is pretty relaxed, this is fun for us. We want as many bikes on the grid as we can get. Stock motor and carbs make it even enough for me. But what do we know, we all keep our kickstarters in!(no internal mods right?) Folks ride the wheels off these bikes, with 28-30 hp any real mechanical advantage becomes apparent real quick. I would protest if I saw something worth protesting... I just don't see it.

 

so just because my bike is new, and has shiny paint, still, and this is its first year out, it cant run with gp? because i spent too much money? or because my bike looks like buffs??? (poor buff) i have a stock motor. stock carbs. stock cam. stock trans. stock heads. stock valves. stock springs. stock pistons. its never even seen a dyno. so if buff decided he was going to drop a stock motor into a braced or unbraced frame because it looks like his other bikes, that should qualify it for or out of gp? ok, so, lets just say i take the cutoff wheel and hack off those 2 braces, then youd have no issue with my bike. thats what youre saying? because now it seems to have crossed beyond that. and i will guarantee that if i did that, id go faster, just to make a point. this has gone to the realm of the weird now.

are you even sure you know what my bike looks like?

joe

 

Joe, I'll bring this to summit for ya:


WELCOME BACK TO GP!!

 

Help! I'm helping Jesse put his 350gp front end together tonight and I can't remember if the aftermarket roller steering head bearings are legal?

 

its in the rule book. or not.


:up:

jc

 

you guys are nuts... of course joes bike looks similar to buff's... the same guy built the bodywork.

matt

 

Yeah man...a happier place...I was born and raised in Jersey, now thats a happy place, right?....probably 40 minutes from tex.

Charly, I'm pretty sure it will be in the rulebook revision.

Rosko the grinder is great.:up: I know its in jest, but I've recieved email saying grinding them off should be required.

We speak of the "wisdom of the rules committe"....well they in their wisdom did not intend to allow frame bracing....because they came up with a list called "Allowed Modifications", and frame bracing isnt there.

Joe, its not about how much an illegal modification helps or hurts your performance.........its that it doesnt comply with the rules. OK, so its not as crystal clear as it is in FCB, right?... but that will change...the change to the rules will just apply clearer language, thats all. frame bracing is not allowed currently, you disagree......We requested a clarification, and we recieved one...now moving on to not needing any more clarificattions.

 

Any Vintage thread this long needs more Pie.

OEM Pie, braced Pie, whatever

You want to protest something, visit you local County Seat or State Capital.

 

Joe, none of the things you mention has anything to do with it.....if thats what you are thinking you are way off.

I think I've got a couple pics of your green bike at work, but I wont be back till monday.....nice looking bike......post some up.

I'm not questioning your abilities, intentions, budget, your friends abilities, your mothers virtue, or your dogs pedigree....not your gaskets, cam, carbs, seat, valve stems, bolts, zip ties, etc.....I'm just saying frame bracing is not allowed...

I'm not saying it helps immensly, or it doesnt help at all.....I'm just saying it doesnt comply, and WERA agrees....its not personal in any way.

If I were in your shoes sir, I'd spend my time requesting a waiver, or something like that instead of arguing....but thats just my opnion.

 

Damn Bob. You are one astute individual. Get yer butt back onto that GS.

Pie.

:up:

 

The Aprilia has been sold to fund my kite flying hobby on Sunset beach.

Fear not, you have not seen the last of me, up in the land of lake effect, piles of GS parts are slowly finding their way onto a GS chassis that will make Ring ah ding ding's blood boil. Plans are under way for visits in later 08 and into 09 to jam a GS junk yard dog firmly up the arse of any F500 smoker foolish enough to think he is the Vintage master of Nelson's kink!

Mean while, here on "My Island" A visit to my newest home away from home, Jennings is planned very soon, my 1st "walk about" to JGP will not be for riding, just a quick trip to pick up my latest vintage ride.

 

And we wonder why Lockheed is losing money and Charlie's bikes isn't ready! :tut:

 

Rule Proposal Submittal

OK, lets get one thing straight.....Lockheed aint losin money!....the rest well, maybe.

I have a draft of what I would submit.

Current Index or "special" rule:

Honda 350cc twins with the following limitations: OEM Honda twin frame and swingarm, OEM, stock, non-modified engine parts (no material removed or added), OEM carburetors (jets may be changed). The following modifications are allowed: aftermarket cam chain and cam chain tensioners, any ignition system and coils, any internal expanding drum brakes, any diameter period forks to class maximum diameter, any period exhaust system, any period body work/fairing.


Rule proposal

Honda 350cc twins with the following restrictions: OEM Honda twin CB/CL/SL non-braced or gussetted frame and swingarm. OEM or stock replacement non-modified engine parts (no metal removed or added, except to 1 mm overbore), OEM carburetors (jets may be changed, chokes removed). The following removals are allowed: Electric starter assy, charging system, kick starter. Following additions / Modifications are allowed: aftermarket cam chain and cam chain tensioners, any ignition system and coils, any internal expanding drum brakes, any diameter period forks to class maximum diameter, Alloy wheels to class specs, any period non-canister exhaust system, any non-reservoir hydraulic shocks, neck roller bearing conversion, any period body work/fairing. Welding of lap joint edges on OEM frame components originally joined by OEM factory spot welds, repairing a cracked original weld or frame / swingarm. removal of "street oriented" tabs and brackets. Any modifications not specifically listed above shall not be permitted.

Wadda ya think? Nothing offically submitted to anyone yet.

This sentence: Any modifications not specifically listed above shall not be permitted. could go in a more general area if deemed proper.

I realize that when someones pride and joy, or passion (cuz sometimes they aint the same) is involved, things can get dicey. If there werent any other options available (option = V1 on the track at the same time), things would be worse.

Make me out as the bad guy if ya want fella's....I'm not gonna say I dont care, cuz I do...but, there comes a time when ya still gotta do what you think is right.

Anyhow, fire away.

 

you guys ARE nuts... bye bye bye..... have fun mongo.

 

My point was one should be able to tell a GP350 from a V1 bike from track side, not close inspection. From a fans perspective, there should be a discernable difference. (And yes, I know they have different colored number plates already..lol!)

That's what's wrong with AMA racing now. They have 4 distinct road racing classes that all look and sound exactly alike when racing.