who uses the rear brake?

Do you run the R6 forks closer to flush with the top triple? Mine have about 15 mm sticking up, I'm not sure but I think T-man told me raising the front would help with this problem a bit. i.e. running closer to flush.

 

this is not something that is "one setting fits all". If you aren't heavy on brakes entering the corners.. the 15mm showing will really help with turn in (but is more than i normally see).. it also depends on the spacers in the forks. some will bottom at the very end of the chrome lower tubes, some will bottom a little sooner. Do you have heavy springs? high or low fork oil level ?? all this plays a part in where you set the tube height. But the answer is always "Thermosman" .. he will know as i'm pretty certain he built those forks on that bike.

 

I'm a heavy rear brake user for several reasons.

Using it entering a corner it's a tool to keep chassis from upsetting itself more than normal.

Use it mid corner to "pull" the bike back inwards.

Use it on exit a lot after the rear gets worn (my bikes don't have tc) and it really helps.

On the starts I'll drag it also to control a wheelie. I usually get pretty damn good starts.

But I'm sure many have said that each person is different. What works for me might not for you.

Definitely don't just slam the rear brake in any instance. You need to set the pedal for maximum feel.

Nowadays in dt I ride with RR boots simply because I like to modulate it whenever needed.

It's basically just another tool.

 

We just changed before Daytona to 1.0 springs, and he serviced the forks. Ohlins 25mm kit. The heavier springs did help a bit and he commented about the ride height. I decided to leave it alone going into the Daytona weekend, I should have tried a different setting while I was there but I didn't, I wasn't in the right mental frame that weekend.

 

Melk's last comment was spot on. but ill still give u some more info on my setup.

distance sticking up above the triple is not a useful measurement. not all forks are stock length. mine arent. measure from the top surface of the lower triple to the center of the axle. do this w/ the front end fully extended - pin stand and push down on the tire to extend the topout spring.

when my forks were stock length, i ran them recessed as far as i felt comfortable with. the extra fork length made the bike more stable on corner entry, made it hold a tighter line pretty much everywhere, and helped it to stay on line for corner exit. i simply cant ride a bike fast when the front end is on the short side.

the front ride height measurement for that setup was 525mm. unfortunately with the stock fork length, i was riding the bottom on hard braking and hated stiffer springs. so i extended the forks (12mm) and im now running 530-535mm depending on the track. springrate: .925, oil height: on the low side, preload: 8-14 turns

 

Thanks. I just measured, I'm at 525mm right now, with 15mm sticking up through the top triple. So I'll try 5mm more ride height and see how that works. I tried stepping on the wheel, it doesn't move, so I'm guessing there's no top out spring, that I can feel anyway.

 

for comparison i was running .95 up front at Daytona, little to no preload, low oil level (compared to some) , it works for my riding style.

1.0 is a lot of spring (imo) for many people. i too still run 25mm carts still , just have him do my setup for you. nothing to lose.

when you measure your front ride height, do you push the front wheel down to top out the fork ?

 

Yes, I stepped on the wheel to try and push it down, it didn't budge, so I'm guessing there is no top out spring.

There's maybe 1.5 turns of preload in there now, this is how Thermosman set the forks for Daytona. I'm going to try raising the front 5mm and see how it feels at the track day.

 

naturally he's got little to no preload with 1.0 springs, i would try some softer ones, with maybe a little more preload to set sag.

 

Stop it, eat a donut, your thinking way too much, your going to hurt yourself. Now look what you've done, you've made my brain hurt.

 

Obviously, he's done a fine job of acclimating.

 

I agree.

Also Gino, you may already know this, but if so it can still help others reading this. You can simply put a .90 spring in one side and then you will have a .95 setup, or install a .85 and get .925. My tuner always had me install the light spring in the left side. That way your remember Left is light.

 

My understanding is that pre-load is little more than dynamic geometry setting within normal adjustment parameters. Pre-load/Sag can only be considered in the context of overall physical geometry.

 

On the 1299S, we are at 1.10 springs in both legs, plus an extra 20cc's of oil, with a good bit of preload dialed in.

 

"many people" .. and in reference to r6, and for Gino. I din't wanna say "Gino, 1.0 is too much spring for you"
And we all know you ain't even CLOSE to what "many people" would use or have LOL

 

i would agree. i'm generalizing here, but lots of preload soft spring, little preload stiff spring.. you can get same static sag target. BUT , you gotta be wicked faster on the stiff spring setup, to get it to turn in, and ride low enough to allow the mid turn and exit. Or be at a track that has harder braking zones.. a track like Roebling road, with literally no hard braking zone (even turn 1 your are only on brakes briefly).. a much softer spring works better, as it will ride low enough without brakes, to carve around and go over all the bumps the track has.

 

Cool, I was just double checking. Agree that "rule of thumb" is you want the minimum spring rate you can get away with subject to the caveat that it's best to get a suspension pro and riding coach to work with you 1 on 1.

 

I will also add, when Tyler was first getting up to speed at AMA tracks on his 600, we sometimes had to take spring out to get him comfortable and then as his speed picked up we would have to add spring back in. Per Lenny Albin, who was helping us, he would often see this with the kids coming up. I think it was Miller, his 2nd or 3rd AMA race we got down to a .925 on front to get comfortable and he raced on .975. After the race he came in and said he wished we went with 1.0. When he was battling with Stefano Mesa, he was using up all his travel on the brakes, the rear was wagging all about, and he was having to release the brakes more than he wanted to.

 

Im sure the people commenting in this thread know this, but for the lurkers...the most important thing is to make sure you take notes of all changes, and then keep notes for every track. At the beginning of the weekend, take all the notes for all of the clickers, springs, gearing, axle position, ride height, track and ambient conditions, tire compound, air pressure, and even lap times.

As odd as it may sound, the "lap times" part is one of the most important ones. There have been times when we went back to a track with the R6 (which we have loads of detailed notes for, at every track), and I complained about something about the bike. Brian went back through the notes and double checked the setup, and he had plugged everything in correctly, we were on the same tires, ambient temps were the same, same gearing, etc.....the problem is that I wasn't riding hard enough. I was off my pace from the year before, so the bike didn't feel right.

Rather than making changes to make the bike feel right at the (reduced) pace I was riding, I needed to just go faster. He had the bike fine, I wasn't pushing hard enough. We had gotten the bike to where it worked really well at full race pace the year before, but I wasn't matching that pace in practice. Once I started riding harder, the bike felt better.