Which AR 15 type rifle?

Are you off your medication? I've never even been on facebook nor have I ever said any of that shit, in fact it's the exact opposite of what I've said. Wow dude, you're a serious tool.

 

Ok, I will throw my two cents into the mix.

I just didn't like the feel of cheap plastic AR's. But I did like the feel of a more expensive DDV11 local shop carries. No idea if "feel" has a correlation to accuracy, but I buy things that I like. Cheap $500 wasn't something I liked. So there you have it, a 100% noob / tool perspective. Soon enough I will pull a trigger on a V11 pro, and then decide what to do with it.

 

I think the AR design is inherently precise. So what could detract from its accuracy?
Three things immediately come to mind, the barrel, the trigger and ammo...

The barrel doesn't seem like something that could be a "shooter" issue but, in a base model where the barrel is not full floating, a sling can easily tension the barrel in a negative manner...you've missed even before pulling the trigger. To a lesser degree, supporting the handguard on a rest or even holding the handguard inappropriately can do the same thing. I think the variables can all be attributed to how pressure is applied to this non-floating barrel. Assuming no undo tension is applied to the barrel, we're left with a barrel that's just a piece of imprecise crap.
There is also tension stored in the receiver due to the shooter's hold. This tension can effect accuracy on even the most expensive of platforms but that's a shooter's fault, not the rifle's.

The trigger as a contributor of imprecision... Even with a good trigger, the shooter may just be ham-fisted, pulling the rifle off target. If the trigger is just crap, no amount of finger expertise can cure it. You may be able to adapt but that's not an ideal solution and would certainly have a marksman cursing. I'd venture to say that most base model AR triggers are crap. The cures are readily available.

In higher dollar ARs, these problems are likely not occurring. The barrels can be better, if nothing more than free-floating; and the triggers can be better, if not outright sourced from a high-end trigger MFG or some Match trigger offered by the AR's MFG.

Saying an AR is an AR is like saying ammo is ammo. It's not.
I have a Match AR15, its only failing afaik is the base trigger it came with. I've yet to replace its trigger cuz, well, Colt decided to install a sear block that limits my choices so, for now, sorry Timney.
Considering the indifference to ammo I've used and its run-of-the-mill trigger, it's never lived up to its potential. It should be a sub-moa rifle. I'm happy, ecstatic even, if it gets 1.5 moa.
My AR10 came with a match trigger and match barrel. I am not indifferent to its ammo. It drills the same hole at 100yds. I fully expect my AR15 would be nearly as precise if I change the trigger and use the appropriate ammo but I've shot the hell out of it and the barrel may have suffered irreparable (ab)use. To date, the 15 has only ever hit the same hole coincidentally.

What's the difference between accuracy and precision?
Accuracy is hitting the mark. Precision is repeating that accuracy.
Make any one of the three things I've mentioned sub-grade and your inherently precise AR's accuracy will suffer, subsequently, you can throw its precision out the window.
Is there a difference in ARs? You betcha. Can that difference be made up with aftermarket furnishings? Absolutely. However, if you choose to run crap ammo, it won't matter. The rest is up to you.

 

But the real question is whether gun lubes are any better than motor oil?

 

Gun lube is for runnin' through the diesel...keeps the injectors cycling on full-auto.

 

Come up here and shoot in the arctic, you'll figure out what doesn't work real fast.

 

And at the end of the day, it's still a battle rifle. Even the cheapest AR (assuming it's not broken/worn out) will hit a man sized target at it's max effective range all day in the hands of anyone with a basic level of training.

 

And a $600 model is fine for about 90% of shooters.

 

Wait, Lucas gun oil or engine oil?

 

Not really in disagreement with that but I like accuracy, and more importantly, precision. Otherwise, it's difficult to tell who the culprit is...
Any given day, I can pretty much take any accurate weapon that's properly sighted in and hit an X with the first shot. If the grouping starts getting all over the map, I'm pretty sure it ain't me. A new guy might think it's him...and he could be wrong. He'll never know if he keeps shootin' that same weapon. It can be a real confidence killer and, depending on the individual, that could be the end of his firearms enjoyment...a sad end due to no fault of his own.

<edit> The new guy is shooting an inaccurate/imprecise firearm.

 

I would bet that the majority of AR buyers are like me. I've got an out of the box DPMS 308, a Mini Ranch and my daughter was given an Anderson Arms 223. We take them to grandma's and tear crap up. And we have a blast. I don't care about ammo. I buy whatever is cheap at Cabela's.

It's all about having fun and living the American dream

 

While I don't doubt that you can pay more and get a more precise weapon . I've started building my own for 3gun.

I just order the cheapest 80% lower I can find at the time and start from there. The farthest I've ever had to hit a target in a match is aboit 300 yards .
There are only two things that I don't buy "cheap" . That's the BCG and the barrel. I don't buy the most expensive either but I will drop a little more coin for both of those parts.

So far all 4 rifles will group about 2-3" at 200 yards with decent but not match grade ammo when shooting from a bench. I'm no marksman so I'm happy.
In competition that's more than good enough to hit a roughly 8" dia target at 300 yards.

So far I've not spent over $800 on a rifle doing this way and only had one malfunction in a match in about 7k rounds sent through the various rifles. I attribute that to an incorrect buffer weight but I could be wrong.

 

Now to the important part.

I just received a New Frontier Amory 80% 9mm lower. Anybody got any tips or can point me to a decent website on building one of these up?

 

You must impart your 3gun knowledge to me.

 

Hahahaha.... not sure I have much knowledge to impart.

My son and I have been doing it for about 2 years. Both of us using ARs I built , glocks (17 & 34) and Stoeger M3k shotguns.

It is by far the most fun I've ever had using a firearm.

The 3 most important things for 3gun are weapon reliability, weapon manipulation and target acquisition.

So far everywhere I have shot is full of nothing but the most helpful people. Willing to give you tips , assistance and he'll even offer the use of equipment.

Oh and one last thing. Dry firing is your friend when trying to train for 3gun

 

"Werabook*" name. Lol your user name. And yes you did. You said I was the bad guy for telling people the guns are fully upgradeabke and to start with just a base AR because they're all about the same. Funny. The other guy says what I say and you like his comment. Like I said. Buy one with forward assist and upgrade it to your liking later. Same thing I tell all my customers. You jump my shit for saying that and then say you told your buddy the same thing. Yes you can make an AR super precise but that's not what 99.99% of people buy them for.

 

Nope, you said:

You also said that an AR is not a precision rifle, as well as other really dumb false statements. I NEVER disagreed that most people are fine with a cheap AR, and gave multiple examples of how I steer people towards cheap ones to get started. I NEVER even implied that people should spend more, but I did disagree with your statements on the capabilities of the rifle...that's it.
If you actually read what I said, you won't see anywhere where I said you were wrong about selling people cheap ARs. That's just wrong...never said it dude. I'm calling you on your false information about the rifle's capabilities, that's it. You have stated that they aren't any better after you spend thousands in upgrades, that's just wrong. Somehow you've attempted to turn this into something else. My challenge to you is, go quote me on anything that you claim I said...cause it ain't there. In your last post above, you say the opposite of what you said before...now all of a sudden you say you can make an AR a precision shooter. You seem totally unhinged and post weird random shit that's wrong, and then get angry about stuff that people never actually said. Maybe you should just pump the brakes a little and actually read what people say. Good luck with your issues dude.

 

All I have to say here is that an AR is an AR is an AR. You know, kinda like an R6 is an R6 is an R6.