Define "No Inside Passing" for trackdays

All of the organizations I ride with enforce & implement this rule for Novice riders (C Group).

It's been awhile since I've ridden in C Group but just this past weekend, while waiting for our group to be called, I just happened to watch a couple novice laps. And I was amazed to see how many faster riders sped up and passed slower riders just before turn-in. I mean, in my eyes if the rider in front has hit his/her turn-in point and you pass him just as he's bbbaaarrreeely about to tip it in then you've just committed an inside pass.

To me, I've always defined that as an inside pass if not unsafe to pull on a novice rider because a lot of times it spooks the passee and may cause him/her to run off the track or worst yet, crash. Back in the days, I usually waited and passed the rider on the outside whether before or in a turn.

But I'm curious to know what others think: Define "No Inside Passing".

 

Depends on the the org. Some state that the inside is anywhere from turn-in up until the apex, then you can pass from there. It really depends on their specific rules. Which trackday org are you referring to?

 

If the rider in front is beginning their turn.. that's a no-inside-passing thing.

Realistically though.. If a rider is that much faster than another rider in C-Group.. Maybe that rider does not belong in C group.

 

I don't really want to name them as I'm afraid it may direct negative thoughts towards the orgs which isn't my intent. But you never know...people are like that.

I don't think I've ever heard a track org specifically define what an inside pass meant. Maybe becuz no one's questioned it. I'll question it next time I'm out there for other's sake. Hopefully someone may be thinking the same thing and will help clear things up. :up:

 

I think the idea is to use your head, and give the rider you are passing room to ride. If you can make the pass without altering what the other rider is doing, then you should be fine. If you make them stand it up, then that is probably too close.

 

+1. Simple and directly to the point. Unless there is a line demarking the end of the straight and the beginning of the corner, tough as it is different for every rider, you have to use your head.

 

I have worked for some events as the guy overlooking the entire track and reporting any riders than should be talked to. Sometimes there will be instances where a rider might have misjudged the pass and made it too close. I will observe them for a while and see if they are chronic and/or blatant in making bad passes. The ones that made an honest mistake are usually more careful afterward. If they continue making bad passes, then I'll black flag them.

 

If the rider is turning you shouldn't pass. Not only that but keep in mind the rider passing is responsible to make a clean safe pass. Sounds to me you saw guys that were faster on straights and maybe not as quick in the curves. But it is poor judgment to overtake riders right before turn in at a curve. Some very negative things could happen. my advice is if you are that much faster pass them on the outside of the turn or move up to a different group

 

This is a good rule of thumb for all Track Orgs.........and inside pass is from the time they are braking for a turn to the exit after the apex! Most novice are concentrating so much on braking and getting into the corner safely that even while they are straight up braking if someone passes them they get spooked and misses there turn in........seen it plenty of times. If your passing someone into a corner #1 your either comfortable of the track and you can move up to B group #2 Your an idiot and think your Rossi and thats why you don't want to move up to B group #3 Your buddy is still slow and your not but you want to hold his hand around the turns.
All in all if you do not have the courtesy to allow that person in from of you to complete his turn in without any interference then you should be moved up! no exceptions. This will make C group a hell of alot saver IMO but frankly it not the orgs fault it is the Control riders the org has fault for not putting there foot down on shit like this, they get so busy trying to break there lap time from the last session they forget why they are there and that is to "CONTROL" the session and the riders within it and to help those that need some guidance. I have gone to plenty of these events and let me tell you I see alot of the control rider monkeying around with there friends and not paying attention to there job. Sorry if I offended any control rider. but it's the truth.

 

I kind of wondered about that question as well, especially on tracks with flowing sections with turns that aren't easily defined. Most of NJMP is like that, not so obvious as to where the turn starts or ends. Don't think you can use the rule as to 'when someone brakes', for lots of riders brake at different times. 125s for instance hardly brake at all!

After getting pulled over at one event, I learned a quick lesson. The turn begins and ends with the little orange cones that they set up. Pass after the first cone, and it's an inside pass. Pretty clear after that one.

I see the point of safety, but honestly, I don't like passing on the outside of the turn. Too many riders drift wide or at the last minute. Best to just ride their tail and try to overpower them coming out of the turn. Or brake later, but before the next cone.

 

I will put it to you very simply, no passing in turn in the novice group, where the straight ends and turn begins is irrelevant , if you are near the end of the straight and you haven't passed the rider, wait till the next straight. How hard is that?

 

Except I fixed the following:

I have to add that IMO if you pull up next to somebody on the inside just before turn in, that's also a no-no, unless you blow by which often is not the case.

 

Basically, if you are passing someone on what will be the inside of the upcoming corner you need to have your passing completed on the straight and before the rider being passed is tipping in to start his/her turn. If you are unable to complete the pass prior to the slower rider's tip in point then you must wait until after the slower rider has completed the exit of the corner to complete the pass.

Please note how in the steps above the plan you go with depends on what the slower rider is doing. It is the responsibility of the passing rider to complete the pass safely. But it's also everyone's responsibility to ride a smooth, safe, consistent, and predictable line. So take a corner or two to observe what the slower rider is going to do to be really safe. And never change your line mid corner (ie. decide to try to complete and outside pass at the last minute) as this is neither safe, smooth, consistent or predictable, and will likely cause you to create an incident with those behind you.

 

This post will show you everything you DONT want to do!

http://forums.13x.com/showpost.php?p=2920227&postcount=866

 

whoah! did the slower rider just enter on the track and cut into the race line? seems like they both should not be in the same group that guy was haulin and the other guy swooped right in front of him but he shoulda seen it comin...or maybee not im not familiar with that track

 

nope... pit lane ends right about where that guy had his get off.
If you notice he goes by 3 riders on the inside. If he were fast...he would have had plenty of speed to go around all those riders on the outside.
Thats a trackday Rossi for ya. In this instance he learned what not to do in the future. (or not)

 

the real problem is there are so many assclowns at trackdays that are gunning for the track record that they can't even use a little common sense and just wait for a safe passing zone cause it might knock a few 10ths off their already ridiculously slow lap times

 

EXACTLY...last year there was a kid that almost plowed 3 of us at a Roebling t/d. Each time it was on the out lap and stoopid moves from T3-5. At lunch break the "officials" asked him to back it down a bit on the first couple of laps as he had gotten several complaints. The kid got all loud and pissy and started to load hit shite up. Stopped for a second and yelled on the main t/d dude that he'll never get down to '28's if he couldn't go balls out right out of the gate.

 

28's? seriously? we're talking RRR?????????? Thats friggin hilarious!

 

28's were easy way back in the middle 90's on my stocker Hawk GT:up: