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AHRMA Dissolution?

Discussion in 'WERA Vintage' started by 83BSA, Oct 30, 2006.

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  1. 83BSA

    83BSA Well-Known Member

    "AHRMA has stated that they tried to negotiate a compromise with Rob earlier this year, but it did not work."


    Give me facts.
  2. weber#465

    weber#465 mud fight

    Straight out of Robs letter "this year did negotiations briefly occur with Dave Janiec".

    Though just like his latest letter and the one you posted #48-51 FACTS are left out or changed to make people to believe AHRMA is the bad guy.

    Why are you still wanting to make everyone believe that he didn't do this to AHRMA?
  3. Robin172

    Robin172 Well-Known Member

    I don't know this who to believe in this fiasco but it would help if whole sentences are quoted:

    "Not until earlier this year did negotiations briefly occur with Dave Janiec (we offered to delay depositions for 60-90 days to facilitate negotiations. AHRMA refused)."
  4. bax504

    bax504 Well-Known Member

    Carl, thanks for your positive outlook. I do agree that there is some good trustees. You would be a good trustee also. The situation that we are in is not one brought on to us by only 1 party. It took a few people to do it. as I stated before, if all new members were elected, would it stop the the TO lawsuit. And if it did stop the lawsuit, would that be better for AHRMA. I don't think so. Thanks again Carl and good luck. Cheers.:up:
  5. charles

    charles The Transporter

    No sense trying to introduce any levity here, people are getting wound up over this shit! The legal process is a process of adversity. Since both sides are 'lawyered-up" why not let the parties directly involved resolve it? Try as you can, you will not adjudicate the case here (on this thread or any other).
    On this thread you willl find sufficient information to obtain and examine the actual court filings (pleadings). Has anyone else done that yet? On this thread,and on the Team Obsolete website, you can read statements from or attributed to the parties involved. It has also been suggested on this thread that you do some simple research: what is a Chapter 11 bankruptcy? What is a Section 501(c)(4) nonprofit corporation, and what are the legal duties of the trustees of such an organization? What is the status of the members (for that read the AHRMA bylaws)? What do IRS Form 990's reveal about AHRMA finances (again, you have been advised how to obtain those filings)? And what have you learned from reading the Chapter 11 bankruptcy documents filed in court by AHRMA (again, public information)? Once you procure those
    things, then you have some facts to examine and weigh.
  6. charles

    charles The Transporter

    ...continuing along with idle speculation, misquotes, half-quotes, selective
    reading and memory, and name-calling and finger-pointing is fruitless. Why do I get the distinct feeling that some folks actually believe that, somehow, magically and mysteriously, Rob Ianucci's lawsuit will simply "go away"? Very wishful thinking, in light of the fact that he and his co-plaintiffs have been at
    this for how many years now? And why do I get the distinct feeling that some folks actually believe that a case filed in federal court (ED NY) can just
    be kept rolling along without merit for how many years now? Rob and TO have just been able to bullshit and buffalo a federal judge(s), over the objections of highly paid legal counsel representing AHRMA, for how many years now? Oh- I see, some of you folks believe it is just a matter of cubic dollars, just pour it on and SHAZAAM, you get to do whatever you want in federal court, huh? And Ianucci/TO, being made of money, continue on for the sole purpose of pissing faster and longer than AHRMA, unconcerned about finances, winning, or the lengthy appeals process which stays any money judgement. Is that what some folks believe? I'm sure AHRMA's soon-to-be former legal counsel will appreciate being considered a mere 'potted plant' (remember Watergate?) in the lengthy court proceedings in ED NY!
    Why, some folks got this down pat! It's easy to see, then, what the deal is,
    right? If not, give all of this some considerable thought. And that's a respectful request.
  7. RGV 500

    RGV 500 OLD, but still FAST

    After reading all the available info (this thread included) it seems pretty obvious to me that this is a pissing contest that got WELL out of control and as one side of the contest had a fair amount of resources at their disposal, they decided to pursue legal means 'at all costs' and refused to be held accountable to the membership.

    As far as the TO side of the equation, who cares....the guy is funding his own litigation.

    The phrase 'inmates running the asylum' comes to mind
  8. charles

    charles The Transporter

    Good you brought this up: until someone testifies under oath (provided they
    are truthful?) we just don't know what transpired. Were the trustees told by legal counsel how to do things, that it was the best way for AHRMA? Exactly what amount of funds was set off for the litigation? Exactly what was at stake in the litigation? Were there any unforeseen and unexpected circumstances? Under law (not our opinions) were (are) the trustees "held
    accountable" to the membership? Were the decisions of the trustees reasonable and dutiful? Since some of the trustees resigned, maybe they can
    comment. Do I disagree with you, Rally 291? No, I don't.
  9. 83BSA

    83BSA Well-Known Member

    It takes BOTH sides to settle a matter. I don't know what the settlement offers were and were not. At least Iannucci/TO has provided SOME information in that regard; AHRMA has offered nothing but a single conclusory statement. And please excuse me if I am loathe to trust explicitly the same folks who have intentionally (if not by comission, then at least by omission) misled me and the membership for years about this very matter.

    Regardless of what was/was not offered/rejected, as my earlier post states, I believe a dispute over membership (even one involving Rob Iannucci and Jeff Smith) could have been settled for less than $1.2 mm (please note that is exclusive of God knows how much Iannucci/TO spent on the litigation). Don't folks think peace would have had a much better chance had the membership been better informed and more involved over the last 4 years?

    Regardless of any thoughts as to what should have occurred, let's focus on what needs to occur now. The membership needs to have a voice in the bankruptcy; it has become clear since the commencement of this thread that AHRMA has failed to adequately represent the membership's best interests in a number of respects. What is the membership to do about that, other than engage in WERA Vintage and TO web site ruminations? I will file a claim as an unsecured creditor in the bankruptcy case; I paid my full year dues in October immediately before the Barber event, and I am entitled to the full benefit of my bargain. Simple self-fulfilling statements such as "don't worry, we'll have a full racing program in 2007" don't provide the requisite assurance or security, particularly when all the objective evidence, and the strategy currently being employed in the bankruptcy by AHRMA, suggest otherwise. I suggest other members take similar actions to become more involved with their organization if they want to continue vintage racing in a manner that they desire, as opposed to a manner yet-to-be-determined for them.
  10. Jeff McKinney

    Jeff McKinney Well-Known Member

    Does anybody know what really happened??????,some of you guys were involved in this back in the day
  11. Mongo

    Mongo Administrator

    Well dayum. Y'all sure talk a bunch :D

    One fact to add to all of this - you do not send deposits before scheduling dates. Releasing a schedule can easily happen without ever even talking to the tracks (I doubt that is the case here but I have seen it happen). Deposits are usually due upon receipt of the contracts which can be immediately forthcoming from the tracks or take a couple of months.
  12. padNC35

    padNC35 Member

    Since I have not had the chance to see the pleadings and/or evidence produced from discovery in this case, I can not comment on the right or wrong doings of either party. But based on my 16 years experience as an insurance defense attorney, I will say if TO's case was without merit as some would have you believe, it would have gone out on summary judgment long before now. Not to mention the rule 11 motions that would have followed.

    Even taking what I have read with a grain of salt, I think the odds are very slim that AHRMA will come out of chapter 11 intact.

    I think the most disturbing part for me is whether the benevolent was in fact looted to pay legal fees. I do not know how the fund was set up, but as member of AHRMA, I would like to see the AG’s office in Ohio and/or TN open investigations into possible misappropriation of benevolent fund monies.
  13. sparksfarmer

    sparksfarmer Member

    Hi All,

    Several good points have been made, but I think Transporter was right when he stated, that we are not going to solve the problem here. Hopefully, what ever comes out of this will still include racing. As Dave and others have pointed out, this litigation stuff just keeps on going. Besides, the AMA was supposed to be involved in this as well. I'm sure we'd all hate to see them take a hit on this too. Either way this goes, I hope we all are able to meet up at the track and get back to racing. That seems to be the common thread here and hopefully, after this all shakes out; we'll all be able to get back to what is really important.

    Hopefully Rob will not start suing the individual members who are trustee's. If he does, I think what ever good image he may have had, will quickly tarnish under scrutiny of the public eye. I know on the AHRMA site, it was said that ROB wanted to run AHRMA into Bankruptcy. Well, looks like he has succeeded.

    No one seems to have brought this up, but I wonder how much control the Bankruptcy trustee has on the workings of the club. Can he postpone the election, or cancel the printing of the V.V.'s? It seems that it would be an expenditure and we might need to get permission to spend the money on the mag. I do not know if the management of the assets go that far or not. Too bad no one isn't a bankruptcy attorney.

    Oh Well, we have at least gotten thru this season and can spend the winter working on our bikes for next year.
    Take Care,

    PS. Charles, I'm thinking your reference to Hugh, was for Chopper Pilot, Hugh Thompson and your speaking of My Lai... I do not know why you would think of this gentleman who first was Navy then Army, but I could not agree more what a selfless man he and the rest of his team were.
  14. krypton7

    krypton7 Well-Known Member

  15. phantom 309

    phantom 309 Well-Known Member

    My prediction is ahrma will go under with ch-7 then ama buys the name or some how will end up with it ,and that is fine as long as jeff smith and comp are out of the picture.now lets just wait and see.
  16. weber#465

    weber#465 mud fight

    Thanks once again MONGO:bow:

    David keep us posted on you file a claim as an unsecured creditor in the bankruptcy case.

    Good luck to everyone racing in 07.:beer:

  17. Jeff McKinney

    Jeff McKinney Well-Known Member

    Could be,they just bailed prostar out,when nobody would buy it
  18. charles

    charles The Transporter

  19. limy_1

    limy_1 Crash Starter

    You maybe right on your prediction about going under (I hope not).
    Remember the AMA is also involved in the proceedings, they may not be in the position to claim rights. We will have to see what the judge says.

    As far as Smith goes remember he is treasurer in the AMA. (fox in the hen house?)
  20. charles

    charles The Transporter

    I mentioned Hugh Thompson, many do not know about this story, when commenting on what I read about AHRMA members speaking of the 'dire
    consequences' they would face for speaking out or challenging the board
    decisions. Sort of lame in comparison, huh, considering also Hugh Thompson was only 24 yrs old and in a combat zone where everyone could kill? Yes, the bankruptcy court can take control of AHRMA upon cause shown. Few of these Chapter 11's survive, so members should take more interest in the legal deal than in discussing racing. For want of a nail, a shoe was lost...you know the rest. Take care, Sparksfarmer, depiste what 'they' say about you, you seem to be quite alright:beer:
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