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AHRMA Dissolution?

Discussion in 'WERA Vintage' started by 83BSA, Oct 30, 2006.

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  1. phantom 309

    phantom 309 Well-Known Member

    If we wait for ahrma to inform us hell will freeze over first.They have been tight liped for my 13 years as a member.If they would keep members informed rather then sweep things under the rug it might give us a better attitude.
  2. 83BSA

    83BSA Well-Known Member

  3. bax504

    bax504 Well-Known Member

    This thread is giving me a head ache. For all of those know it alls, give us a positive solution. Don't just jump on everybody with a different view. Right or wrong this is going to hurt the racers. No matter what the out come the racers will still race and the complainers will still complain. :(
  4. hcw350

    hcw350 New Member

  5. Jeff McKinney

    Jeff McKinney Well-Known Member

  6. Jeff McKinney

    Jeff McKinney Well-Known Member

    we posted at the same minute :crackup:
  7. weber#465

    weber#465 mud fight

    Sparksfarmer 10 David -0


    David, Sparksfarmer just handed your ass to you again.:crackup:

    David you came forword on 10/30/06 and let people know you are for Rob Iannucci and you are against AHRMA. You have let it be known many more times through this thread that you want to hurt AHRMA. Not one time have you posted one (1) good thing about AHRMA and have infact encouraged members to start filing papers that would only help Rob I. bog AHRMA and the legal team down.

    Now you have your letter answered and we have a statement from AHRMA that was going to get posted without your diatribes.

    I am sure you, DAVID RUTHERFORD and Story Telling STUART CARTER can both go and ask Rob Iannucci what to do next to try and get members to turn against AHRMA.:rock:

    It looks like DAVID and friends has teamed up with GOLIATH to put AHRMA out of racing.

    David this is a challange to you to post things pro-AHRMA instead of anti-AHRMA. The choice is yours.

    As for me I am going to be patient twards AHRMA an let them do their work. Its only been sense the tenth (only a few days) that they filed chapter 11. The money that has been getting saved throught the years got spent on this lawsuit. If there were no lawsuit then the money would still be there (they didn't squander it all before). I trust that they are doing all that they can to save AHRMA.

    I am for AHRMA.
    James :cool:
    Last edited: Nov 21, 2006
  8. charles

    charles The Transporter

    Soooo..."David, Sparksfarmer just handed your ass to you again." Fer sure... Yea, I see...well, apparently this is indicative of the "Us v. Them" mentality
    that has pervaded AHRMA over the years. A 'black and white' situation, so anything in the vast 'gray area' gets bypassed. So, I suppose an AHRMA member can not levy any criticism about his organization without risking a
    charge of disloyalty, or being dis-membered. Don't ask questions, either,
    or you'll be charged with being an agent of Rob "Evil Rob" Ianucci. What a
    circus this is turning out to be! Anyway, now that AHRMA has posted some responses and documents, we can review those and try to maintain civility
    whilst we comment.

    Know ye the Truth, and the
    Truth shall set you free.
  9. YAM#849

    YAM#849 y'all watch this...

  10. Tinfoil hat charly

    Tinfoil hat charly Well-Known Member

    british people are stubborn

    ok: so you don't go out of your way to piss off rob ianucci--i get it: what's wrong with jeff smith? i think it's cultural: after the american revolution and war of 1812 the british were preparing to have another go at america : then the civil war broke out, they put their plan on hold, set back and watched, and were appalled--decided we were nuts, left us alone.
  11. charles

    charles The Transporter

    No, it's not a matter of pissing off anyone, nor is it cultural difference thing.
    It's all about strategy. Here's a quote from someone who took some folks to school on strategy, circa 1952:

    "The enemy will pass slowly from the offensive to the defensive. The blitzkreig will transform itself into a war of long duration. Thus, the enemy will
    be caught in a dilemma: He has to drag out the war in order to win it and does not possess, on the other hand, the psychological and political means to fight a long drawn-out war..."
    -General Vo Nguyen Giap, in an early
    analysis of the future course of the
    Viet Minh war with the French.

    This concept might have some practical application in legal battles and
    even in everyday life...
  12. padNC35

    padNC35 Member

    Personally, I just want to go racing, with or without AHRMA. That said the only thing I have against Jeff Smith personally is that I wish he would change in and out of his riding gear in his van or a motorhome, I really don't care to see his wrinkled old ass changing in the parking lot. :moon:
  13. weber#465

    weber#465 mud fight

    I agree with you and charly both:crackup:

    and:beer: to you both

    Whats wrong with jeff smith? I don't know him very well but in talking to people who do say he is stubborn. The same people know Rob Iannucci and we can see how he is with what power he does have. Some of those same people were actually there standing next to them (Jeff and Rob) on the outside platform of the tower at Putnam when they were arguing about the carb on the bikes that had just ran. There is some intresting details to the story but that is not going to fix this problem.

    Time will tell all.

    Charles, you dave and stu have tried to paint a grim picture of AHRMA.:Puke:

    Maybe I am the only one to think that you three, as smart as you all are:bow: , could try to say something nice.The only thing that AHRMA owed me was the year I paid for, nothing more. If there were no lawsuit and they stopped racing they wouldn't have devided the money (1,000,000 as someone said) between its 5500 members and sent them a check.

    It doesn't have to be us against them as you have said. In past post on this thread I have said that it would be nice if we could all "pull together". How about it?

    I hope that they recover the money and can put it back where it belongs. DON'T YOU?
    I hope that they continue to put on races as good as we have had in the past and maybe even better. DON'T YOU?

  14. charles

    charles The Transporter

    James, it was only my observation that the matter got into an "US v.THEM"
    posture over the long years, and I don't think that was a positive thing. How
    the organization was run (regarding the litigation) has been my only focus here. AHRMA has posted documents related to the court cases, so all should read that. The question regarding recovery of legal expenses is in the hands of the courts. Do I personally think the members should be concerned about all of this? Absolutely. Do I want to see vintage racing continue? Yes, yes indeed. But you would admit, wouldn't you, that certain things must change in order to keep the organization viable? Last, respectfully, what do you envision as "pulling together"? Maybe this is a good point of departure on this thread from what has een posted already: how do members envision the future and how is that going to come about now?
  15. WERA33

    WERA33 Well-Known Member

    david and friends put ahrma out of business????? you havent met him....obviously. a dedicated vintage enthusiast who brings three well prepared bikes to the track. hes not anti ahrma by far. now that he and many other members are more vocal i bet it will on the minds of of the new E.D. and trustees that members want tranparency in the org.
    ill be voting by the way. i believe its time for guys like jeff smith to step aside completley so ahrma can move on without their baggage. i like carl anderson for trustee , someone new to the board but with years of racing with different orgs and hes actually a rocket scientist(could be helpful). :)
    dont confuse a diligent pursuit of the truth as siding with anyone. im sure david, stu, and charles arent cheerleaders or big fans of rob.
  16. charles

    charles The Transporter

    Looking at some bankruptcy law...you might want to check out the oral argument and briefs filed in the case of In Re Marrama, U.S. Supreme Court,
    Case No. 05-996. The main focus seemed to be the issue of something called "bad faith" (and "good faith") in filing for bankruptcy...the U.S. Circuit
    Courts were split on the issue...also, along the same lines, review the case of
    In Re SGL Carbon Corp., 200 F.3rd 154 (3rd Circuit 1999) in which the court
    held that SGL's Chapter 11 "lacks a valid reorganizational purpose, and, therefore, lacks the requisite good faith." It appears that SGL filed for the purpose of avoiding a pending debt (judgement), and the court believed for
    reasons you can read about, the Chapter 11 was in 'bad faith', and, hence,
    was dismissed...now then, both OH and TN are in the Sixth Circuit, which
    utilized the legal rationale in In Re SGL Carbon Corp to arrive at the same
    conclusion in In Re Copper in 2004, that is: bankruptcy petitions may be
    dismissed for 'cause' under 11 U.S.C. Sec 1112(b) if not filed in good faith.
    So, do the research and reading and comment...by the way, ain't those
    Supreme Court Justices some sharp knives in the legal drawer??? You better be on top of your game if you go into their house.
  17. charles

    charles The Transporter

    ...just got back in after feeding the chickens and getting the livestock rounded up, a few coyotes last night...horses okay...bobcats okay...

    I forgot to add in my last post that the U.S. Supreme Court case is current,
    they've heard oral arguments and will make their decision within the next month...the decision will, of course, have impact on bankruptcy proceedings.

    Michigan to play Ohio again in the title game?

    "just let that Tootsie roll,
    cotton candy sweet and low...":D
  18. racertex

    racertex vintage dude

    all this horseshit bitching and moaning is the sole reason i race wera with my mid-ohio swapmeet bought cb350.

    no accuses me of being anything other than a racer.

    after racing we kick back, drink beer, and tell lies.

    the uscra and the vrra has the same very chill vibe.

    i guess i'll trade ahrma's daytona for the vrra's mosport. i'll also trade ahrma's mid-o for wera's vir. no more track nazi's, no more snobby looks, no more bureacratic hassles........

    and i'll go home to loudon to kick back with my new england homies and their crazy awesome sidecars and solo racers.

    f-it! it's so cool to be me!

    i'm punching out of this thread goose,

    tex mawby, wera, uscra, and vrra roadracer
  19. Yamaha Fan

    Yamaha Fan Well-Known Member

    To weber#465 Sparksfarmer your perspective on this is almost juvenile. Just because a member questions the actions of the ED and Trustee's of the organization does not mean they are against the organization...

    Your perspective limits you to a single concept of True - False or Good-Bad, appropriate for this discussion. Just as in any logical analysis of a situation, False-False (Bad-Bad) can exist, this is the case here. Both sides behaved in a manner that is totally disrespectful and detrimental to the members that actually own the club. The leadership lost perspective of what is important and to whom they serve, THE MEMBERSHIP. No matter what the who struck who has been there is no way the to rationalize the current position or potential outcome of this. I believe the current slate of Trustees (post Jeff Smith) did attempt to end this but an entrenched opponent may have left no choice but to move this to chapter 11.

    I have not seen a single post from David or others that indicates they are Rob I supporters (other than possibly Stu)... It is an incorrect assumption on your part that questioning the actions of AHRMA means David is a Rob I supporter. It is just this mentality that will get another slate of leaders elected that will not be responsive to the members. The questions and statements have been limited to the actions of the E.D. and board members in pursuing this matter from the perspective of a concerned member. You on the other hand seem to blindly accept that this is all the fault of Rob I and assessed zero culpability to anyone at AHRMA...

    Hopefully a new slate of leadership can bring accountability, fair dealings and an end to the SWM racing mentality (even handed and actual enforcement of the rules) for every member in the future :up: that would certainly go a long way to my consideration of racing with AHRMA.

    In the end if Rob I presses on he may have little if nothing to show for it,, becoming a likely pariah on the vintage scene having destroyed AHRMA with no place to showcase T.O. and its bikes/riders.. It is possible those at the helm at AHRMA that ran it into this ditch will find themselves deservedly in a similar situation as far as the opinion of the members...

    The unfortunate aspect of this is that the Flat track, Motocross and Trials members have paid dearly for this even though it has nothing to do with their segments within AHRMA, how fair or proper were the actions of the ED and Trustees to these members?
  20. weber#465

    weber#465 mud fight

    happy thanksgiving

    Whether I agree with you or not, to all a very Happy Thanksgiving:beer:

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