Why even bother with college these days?

The median pay for a welder is about 38,000. And about 1/4 don't get health benefits. You can search any number of sites to obtain proof of this post.

I like the BUREAU OF LABOR STATISTICS myself. It appears only the elite get above $50K.

Truth is, in today's society, it's damn near impossible to make 6 figures or even get a simple job without some sort of college degree. It can be done, but you'll be the low level piss ant working 70 hours a week with little chance for advancement.

But someone did mention, don't get a worthless degree.

 

Fair enough. I don't come away with that impression of him as I don't think I've ever heard him say that college is a fools errand but rather it might not be for everyone and that there are perfectly acceptable alternatives to pursue.

 

I have just a few random comments/observations.

First, I think it's undeniable that statistically, lifetime earnings increase with the higher educational degree that you have attained. Of course, on an individual basis, there are always exceptions and always will be.

Second, I believe viewing higher education as simply a means to an end (greater income) is a highly flawed and narrow outlook.

Lastly, does everybody need to go to college? Hell no. What is it that you are looking to do with your life? If you want to work in the trades, by all means, go do it. If you want to be the guy who works in the trades and owns his own company then learning your trade combined with a four year business degree isn't going to do you a disservice, I guarantee it. When it comes to the hiring process, I kind of look at it like this: I have three 24 year old kids looking for an entry level management position. One has four years of experience in the job that the management position will be managing. The next has a four year degree in any liberal arts discipline. The third has work experience in the job that the management position will be managing AND earned that four year degree. Who do I hire? Number three has real-life experience and has demonstrated that he has the ability to balance that with obtaining the four year degree.

Although those four year liberal arts degrees may generally be considered by many to be useless in transferring over to a real-life skill, they do hone a students ability to engage in critical thinking and problem solving. I'll go for that any day.

 

can't disagree with anything either of you are saying. like i said... different strokes for different folks, people just need to realize what the cost is (money for schooling vs. leisure time vs. training/education requirements vs. desired salary) against the payoff and decide what's right for them. i personally didn't ever want to work 60-70 hour work weeks, which i see most all of my mechanic/chef/service/small business friends do. so then what do i have to do, that i like to do, that can earn me X, while not having to do that. that was most of my thought process. and its also why i'm not a strategy consultant. a lot of it is knowing yourself i guess.

as far as Rowe... i'll try and look for it later, but somewhere he spouted off some harsh criticisms of higher learning that weren't simply just "maybe its not for everyone" and were more along the lines of "college is stupid." i'll look after lunch/meetings.

 

There is a place for both routes in this world. It is the notion that trades and labor jobs are below us that has everyone convinced that they must go to college. I have less education than my siblings (2 year degree from a community college) but have the best/highest paying job. It's not because I chose a magical profession but I didn't chose liberal arts because I knew there wasn't any money to be made going that route, especially since I had no intention of getting a 4 year degree.

The company I work for is based about 45km east of Munich in a small town. They have a full on apprenticeship program where kids who do not plan to go to college can start working at the factory half day after school. After a year or two they switch to full time. It is kind of like a vocational school program. It even has its own building at the factory now where the students learn and we also use it for customer training and internal stuff for new employees or technical presentations during new product development.

They rotate around the factory learning machining, mechanical assembly, electrical tech, welding, ect ect. Once they find something they really like, they focus on that until they complete the program. They are normally offered a job at the company when they complete the program at age 18 or if there is not a spot for them the company helps them get placed at another local company (BMW and it's sub suppliers are all over that area).

If they are a service technician or a machinist, they can easily start with a salary of 50k year, full benefits, 6 weeks of vacation. By the time they are 30 they are moving into project management, sales support, sales, QC or something else.

This is something that we are sorely missing in America. You don't go from high school flunkie to ace mechanic by filling out a job application at Car-X or changing oil at the Chevy dealer. We need to get back to grooming people for these jobs when they're young. Not every child has hidden genius inside, we need to recognize that and steer them accordingly.

 

Yes, Commercial Steel...

 

Ive been an automotive tech for about 14 years and am making north of 150k. No, that is not common and I am in the upper percentile of intelligence when it comes to that field of people (everyone can save their smartass comments ). I also hustle, have excellent time management skills and dont come to work to bullshit with everyone. Its also the one of the only skilled trades where I can get paid 100 hours for only working 40. I do have a degree in criminal justice for what its worth, I started it before working on cars and finished it in case I needed something to fall back on. There is something to be said for higher education though, I feel it helps me see the bigger picture unlike a lot of other people in my field which is one of the reasons I feel that I excel at what I do. With this job you get out of it what you put into it.

 

Please feel free to provide any proof of this delusional statement.

 

You did catch the location being Munich? There may be a Munich here, but I would think he means Germany.

 

I did this for awhile and worked myself into eventually PMing a few jobs. Not easy but not all that rocket surgery. I took a class on reading prints because I wanted to make sure I was doing it right and everything else about it I learned keeping my mouth shut and listening to the people that knew their shit. Some reading as well. This really was a case of those who can't tell those who can what to do. lol!

I liked it enough but hated a lot, if not all the people I worked with. I knew it wasn't for me but it was cool as all f@ck to learn something so far from what I went to the Kollege for and it was a pretty okay paycheck for a few years.

One thing that still f@cks with my brain though is f@ckin' doors!

 

Like aedward said, it all depends on the field. I've been a construction project manager since 1988. I piddled with college for years ( I have enough hours now that if I go back I'm a mid-year Junior) but when I got hired into the office from the field I quit going. I was making six figures in 1991. Most of the people I know in this field have no college, only OJT. The few I've met that did have fancy construction degrees couldn't tell which end of a hammer to plug in.

On the other end of the spectrum is my wife, who has an MBA. She just broke the six figure ceiling a couple of years ago. And both of my kids are in college right now.
What my son is going to do with a Geography/Urban Planning degree is beyond me, but my wife swears that in this town it doesn't matter what degree you have, just that you have a degree.

 

Here you go
http://www.steeldor.com/_docs/Tools/handing-charts/handing chart 042707.pdf

 

Duh. Crim justice degree is what taught you how to steal an extra 60 hrs on your time sheet.

 

As someone else pointed out... this is in Germany.

Here in the states we hire guys with little or no experience, start them at around 20$ hr, benefits and 2 weeks vacation.

 

i literally JUST had that convo friday, and that's with respects to my white collar office job. we have 3 positions open right now, all 3 are $90k+ with 5+ years of experience and a degree needed. my director asked if we knew anybody... i told him i have this one guy i wanna snipe from my last job. he's a super fast learner, good work ethic, cool dude, easy to teach, but he's only like 25 and only has like 2 years in our field. doesn't qualify. i asked my director though, why when you look around our entire office is people of my level... early/mid 30's and up, 5-10+ years of experience, etc... and why we don't have any $50-60k a year jobs where we can take younger guys and groom them. it doesn't make any sense really. we have tons of dumb work that just has to be done, that somebody with less skill could do while picking up more experience, and it would free us up to focus on more important shit. he agreed, but then kinda blew it off as "well HR takes forever to make new positions, and blah blah blah..." but my entire department is lacking that grooming mechanism.

my buddy is exactly you. i watched him work his magic at Lexus and now Tesla for years and years. head down, college degree, liked wrenching though, manages his time amazing and pulls 100+ hours a week on a 40-50 hour work week. but for the 1 him, his dealership had 20 other "come late, bullshit, fuck up jobs, work slow, complain" guys. that's what i was saying. anything's possible, but you guys are the outlier not the norm. gotta hustle in a commission gig, where as a salary office gig affords you more leeway in many respects. my buddy who sniped him when he switched from Service Writer at Lexus to Service Manager at Tesla is the same exact way. got half way thru college, started making 6 figures at Lexus, dropped out. he did that for a decade before going back and finishing his degree thinking he would move to IT, right as he was finishing up he got offered this job at Tesla and took that mechanic with him. but still, he had to hustle... at Lexus there were 6 service writers and he was clocking 35% of the work by himself. another dude 35% and the other 4 dudes combined were the last 30%. those are the people that can say college wasn't necessary to become monetarily successful, but then you gotta have that kinda drive and personality.

 

Thanks Acree but it's been almost a decade since I worried about a door swing and sizing and it's something I swore to myself I'd never deal with again.

I F@CKIN' hate door handing and sizing more than I hate metalhead. Easily top 20 of my hates.

 

That chart is ridiculous. The simple way to do it is put your back to the hinge side and whichever side the hinge is on is the door swing, left or right. All this
right hand reverse crap is for engineers that wouldn't know how to install a door if you stood there and showed them.

 

Germany and Switzerland really value apprenticeships. France lags severely behind because it's still generally regarded as something for kids who flunk out of school. Results show in the economy and labor statistics.

 

But what's it like in Calais?

 

As usual, the beeb is having a lively discussion on a topic that's really a symptom of the larger issue... We send kids to college to get a degree, rather than to train for a job.

I am 1000% in favor of apprenticeship tracks, be it independent of, or in conjunction with a 4-year degree. Too many kids start college with no idea what job they want. I was one of them.

I like to think things are working out well enough for me, so no major complaints, but I could probably be making more money, have less debt, and be more established in my career if I'd gone into elevator installation and repair rather than gotten a BA in English, languished in IT for several years, and gone to law school...