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Why even bother with college these days?

Discussion in 'The Dungeon' started by SPL170db, Jan 31, 2016.

  1. SPL170db

    SPL170db Trackday winner

    I've been of the opinion lately that colleges are just places to indoctrinate the youth with bullshit ideals and feminist propaganda (and we won't even get started on the whole "rape culture" nonsense on campuses) and now it looks like even the big corporations that would be hiring you are looking at that piece of paper you get after 4 years as being irrelevant.

    http://www.news.com.au/finance/work...s/news-story/8a0340dd2b8e70e35b8ce3302c8d0cc5

    Higher learning: one of the biggest financial scams currently running.
     
    Mike:p likes this.
  2. crashman

    crashman Grumpy old man

    Unfortunately unless you do your 4 years in Young Adult daycare you do not even get in the door because all of the lower level HR people that do the initial screening of resumes have a 4 year degree and think that everyone else should too. It will take a while for that mindset to disappear no matter what the official company statement is. A BS or BA has turned in to the same thing that a highschool diploma was 20+ years ago.
    "Free" government money has ruined the education system and given an entire generation of people unrealistic expectations of what they should do for a living. If it was me graduating right now I would happily go in to a trade school knowing that most of the college educated crowd would never make more money than me.
     
    BigBird likes this.
  3. Metalhead

    Metalhead Dong pilot

    I agree with crashmans last line. And that's how I'm pushing my kids. Trades. Go to the trades. They pay well, and you'll ALWAYS be able to find work. Period.
     
    whitarnold likes this.
  4. Dave K

    Dave K DaveK über alles!

    Yeap, treat that 4 year degree as a door opener for the interview for most jobs.

    and don't waste your money on a worthless degree. Philosophy, women's studies, fashion design? That'll get you an interview at Starsmucks if you're lucky.
     
  5. crashman

    crashman Grumpy old man

    Just the last line?:mad:

    :D
     
  6. Funkm05

    Funkm05 Dork

    Lord knows the first line isn't correct.
     
  7. GRH

    GRH Well-Known Member

    I work for a mid sized company. I hired 2 people in 2015 for my group and have 2 open positions. Most the time I look for experienced help and don't care about what they did between the ages of 18 and 21. One guy in my group that is usually part of the interview team has his MBA and he likes to make a big deal out of what college the applicant did or did not go to. He told me it demonstrates an individuals perseverence to learn, I told him it doesn't mean shit.
    I can name way more intelligent and hard working people with no college education than those with a MBA.
    For what it's worth my HR dept has never pressured any of us to choose candidates based on their college education.
     
    dsmitty37, G2G and Funkm05 like this.
  8. crashman

    crashman Grumpy old man

    I guess either your industry is different than mine or else you are one of those mid level HR people. Our "talent aquisition" group make Homer Simpson look like a corporate genius. The last 1/2 dozen people they have forwarded to us looked really good on paper but had zero technical skills and did not last 3 months...
     
  9. Funkm05

    Funkm05 Dork

    Well above mid-level. The fact that you're not involved in the decision-making based on your comment simply shows you're talking out of your ass. I agree with the bulk of the rest of your post, but, again, your first line is pure make believe. 9/10 HR people want to look good at their job. That means making the right hire. If they're told by the hiring manager that x is what will help with that ... They're looking for x. It has nothing at all to do with them believing everyone else has to have one because they do. In fact, in many cases, especially in smaller companies, the "lower level HR people" don't have one either. AA or certification is quite common amongst recruiters.
     
  10. kbro45

    kbro45 Well-Known Member

    I graduated in 2008 with a construction management degree and have worked at a very large construction company and a pretty large construction company. In both cases there was not a single person aside from admins that didn't have a degree. Most of the superintendents have degrees nowadays.

    So I would really say it depends on the line of work you want to go into.
     
  11. wmhjr

    wmhjr Well-Known Member

    1) The article was based on Australia - not necessarily an indicator of everywhere.
    2) It all depends on the career you're looking for. There is absolutely nothing wrong with a skilled trade - and frankly there is a lot of advantage to be said for skilled trades. Far too many kids are "pushed" into college just because their parents think that's the right thing to do. It is not always so. It's pretty hard to outsource fixing your plumbing to India.
    3) People are generally paid more for doing things that either others can't do (as well) or things that others won't do.
    4) College (with the exception of professional jobs such as law, medicine, engineering) is more of a "check the block" proving that the kid can at least complete what they start. More than anything, it provides "learning skills" for most careers. Not actual technical experience.
    5) Most places could care less "where" the degree came from. Only that there is a degree. "Where" your degree is from helps you network into potential jobs. That is exactly what Alumni organizations are for.
    6) For many jobs, you simply won't get an interview without a degree. Period.
    7) For those that you do, if you are equal in other measures, you'll lose to a candidate that has your experience and skill but also has a degree.
    8) What colleges "teach" our kids in terms of culture, attitude, etc is criminal these days.
    9) College is massively overpriced, and it makes less and less financial sense unfortunately.
    10) HR people in any place I've worked in the past 35 years or so do not hire anyone other than other HR people. They simply recruit candidates that other people hire.
     
  12. crashman

    crashman Grumpy old man

    And you are biased because you are in HR. That being said you are very likely one of the good people who actually cares and tries to balance corporate and employee needs. Unfortunately I can not say the same for our HR people.
    Unfortunately operations is no longer involved in the initial selection process. We just have to filter thru the crap that the talent aquicition group sends us and try to find the diamond hidden in with the turds. They may want to look good at their job and are taking their direction from above but unfortunately some low to mid level HR person in Bakersfield has no idea what will make a good field engineer in Alaska and prescreens the resumes based on pretty words alone. I have been in knock down drag out fights with the talent aquisition group to try to get someone that I knew was good on board because they did not have all of the check boxes on some flunkys sheet filled out and we needed them to put the person in the system as a candidate before we could officially talk to them. Like I said, your industry may be diferent but we had way better retention rate before we had HR "help" us and pre screen resumes based on education alone. 0 for 6 is not a very good number in my world.
     
  13. tzrider

    tzrider CZrider

    Oh look! Yet another liberal elite bashing tread!...

    It amuses me no end that some people ever held the notion that schooling guaranties, somehow, the perfect professionals.

    You people need to back to school!....


    (I'm with Metalhead here, we need the LOL emoticon back!)
     
  14. Metalhead

    Metalhead Dong pilot

    Lol. No no, I didn't mean it like that, I just focused on the last one. I'm a tradesman. Em effers can't live without me.:D
     
  15. Dave K

    Dave K DaveK über alles!

    At my last company I didn't wanted college know it alls, I wanted waiters, bartenders and service advisers. People that were used to dealing with idiots and did not just give up when the shit got heavy. If they had a degree, cool, but I wanted hungry who would work their asses off on the phones.

    I still won't hire an MBA no matter what. Worthless ass pimples, the lot of them.
     
  16. Metalhead

    Metalhead Dong pilot

    Then you're probably a pretty decent boss.
     
  17. Sweatypants

    Sweatypants I am so smart! S-M-R-T... I mean S-M-A-R-T!

    well... my sister in law had one of those (slash Toy Design degree). she makes a shit bunch of money more than i do. works from home. calls all her own shots. probably designed a shit load of stuff that a bunch of your guy's nerd kids have played with in the past decade. she has had her own line of toys/art/clothes while simultaneously working for every major toy company in the country before now being free-lance. her degree was meaningful and useful. its all what you make of it. she still had to work her way up, just like i did, just like you probably did... but saying those are worthless is ignorant. unless you're a legacy rich kid in an ivy league fraternity, you're probably working your way up like everyone else.

    when people give the whole "college is a waste" and "liberal indoctrine" bullshit line, i can't take a thing they say seriously. you could not learn half of the stuff i do without college, OR you'd have to be that one kid out of 50,000 that has SUPER drive and self-discipline to self teach yourself economics, high level math, trade, global business, contracts, etc... fundamentals. that shit is rare as fuck. i will never take an outlier, as a valid position in an argument for/against something. i had a cousin that was that dude... 1600 on his SATs (the old scale, perfect score) and he almost failed HS because he didn't do any work and thought it was beneath him and refused to go to PE. did a bunch of random shit, then school, then congressional aide, law school, now lawyer, found his path. but shit man, at least if you go to college, by default it half forces you into paying attention and absorbing something. college also shows you have follow thru and can stick to and finish something long and difficult to do. it also helps you expand your general knowledge base and develop the skills to be able to problem solve and think about things from various angles, even if not directly related to your field.

    muh fuckas who are suckin Mike Rowe's dick regurgitating his dumb shit are fuckin retards. you gonna listen to the ONE guy who "made it" on some trades shit talmbout education is worthless. trades education is still education. just depends what you wanna do. a 2 year program followed by an apprenticeship is still basically the same "time" as a 4 year college. there's really no way around getting around putting in the years of time learning something, unless you wanna be a salesman... then all you need is hustle and personality... and then you're putting in the time grinding it out in a job for commissions. you can either put in the time at the beginning, develop a skillset, learn something that's difficult that sets you apart, then get paid for your knowledge based skills... or don't put in the time early, and just put in a TON of time on your feet hustling all day. the term "work smart or work hard" didn't just come from nothing...
     
  18. In Your Corner

    In Your Corner Dungeonesque Crab AI Version

    Do a good job and he'll never look down on you.
     
  19. R1Racer99

    R1Racer99 Well-Known Member

    As someone who never went to college, to me it's about your income ceiling. There's only so much you can do without a degree, you can certainly make a livable wage but making real money seems pretty difficult. Other than the occasional genius, business owner, or someone who turns a great idea into a bunch of money, what's the most you can expect to make without a degree? I think it's pretty damn difficult to get into the six figures without it.
     
    Last edited: Feb 1, 2016
  20. R Acree

    R Acree Banned

    There are a hell of a lot of college grads not making 6 figures.
     

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