Which Light Weight battery dependable?

speedcell

 

I have the smallest Speedcell on my track 750, it weighs only 11 oz.
Full season on it with zero issues whatsoever!

 

And I also have the 1.6 lbs. Speedcell on my street bikes,
one of them being a zx14. Two seasons on both batteries in both bikes
with zero issues so far.

 

There is no bad battery here. They all work, do job, weight less and are better than lead ones in every aspect. Pick one you like most for whatever reason, price, package, purpose...etc. So, answer to question of this thread is they are all dependable and great batteries, IMO.

 

I figured I would offer my input being a battery manufacture also...http://antigravitybatteries.com

There are some differences that you might want to consider when looking for a battery. Now there are many choices. And what will work for you application the best is ultimately up to what you want.

There are two types of the Lifepo4 battery cells. There is the Prismatic Cell such as the Shorai uses, and the Cylindric Cells that Antigravity, Full Spectrum, Speed Cell ect.... The Cylindric cell offer many more Cranking Amps per Amp Hour than the Prismatic...But the Prismatic has a higher Amp Hour rating. Cranking Amps are the power a battery puts out and are most important for starting. Amp Hours are the capacity of the battery, and are more important for uses like powering items when the bike isn't running.

You can maintain a much smaller more compact size with more power with the Cylindric form of lithium... So in essence the Cylindrics offer a smaller and more powerful format. While the Prismatic form of Lithium offers a package similar to the lead in Cranking Amps/Amp hour ratio and a case more standardized.

As far as price point you will not find the Cylindric able to compete for a number of reasons... first they are usually made in the USA by hand (like Antigravity Batteries) While the Shorai is a mass produced battery made in China... Most of the U.S. made batteries are build by hand and the Cylindric cell they use (A123) is a proven performer over many years with many years of independant lab tests and the batteries are used all over the world in the most demanding applications such as electric vehicle, medical equiptment and so on. (You can Wikipedia A123 Systems for some additional info).
With the Cylindric form you are paying extra for that small size and ability to have massive Cranking amps in the smallest package.

A example of the power to size ratio....On the small 4 cell batteries Antigravity makes it has has 120 Cranking Amps...and weighs .75 lbs and half the physical size of the Shorai but offers MORE cranking amps to the comprable Shorai... So that might benefit rider who want the tiniest battery possible that will also give room for a power commander in the battery tray area or to relocate the battery to a certain area along the frame or something, and even offers more air flow around the motor when installed with the battery box cut away...But the Shorai is less expensive and has a more typical battery case, easier to install.

The size of an Antigravity 4 cell 2300... 1" depth x 4" wide by 3.25" tall compared below to a Yuasa Ytx7...


So for another example...on the larger size batteries the power difference become more noticeable...

The largest Shorai (LFX18) has 270 Cranking Amps.. vs. the Antigravity 12-cell which has 360 Cranking Amps. So the Antigravity battery has 90 Cranking Amps more... weighs the just nip less, yet is almost 2 inches shorter in width, 1.25 inches shorter in hieght and the same depth... So a much smaller foot print yet many many more Cranking Amps. Once again the Shorai would cost less but not offer near the performance in cranking amps or size benefit.

Last to show how a battery manufacture such as Antigravity is different from a larger importer like Shorai. Shorai does not offer anything larger than their LFX 18 at 270 Amps... But Antigravity also offers a 16-cell battery that is only 4" x 4.25" x 2.6 inches still almost 2 inches less wide than the Shorai, and has the same height and depth BUT puts out a MASSIVE 480 Cranking Amps. Fully 210 MORE cranking amps than the Shorai yet much smaller. This many Amps can start a V8 motor. Nothing is available this small with that many Cranking Amps. This battery is great for Adventure bikes, Race Cars, Drag bikes, Big customs or anything where you want very small but with massive power.

So I just wanted to offer a perspective on the differences offered these day. So there is many options now and that is good for all of us, so wiegh your desires and choose your poison.

[email protected]

 

In reality you don't need more than 120cca to start bike. I started my R1 40 times in row with 102cca (LFX07). 135 cca like Shorai LFX09 will start any bike easy. 4 cell cylindric battery had harder time turning my sv650, I switched to 8 cell. LFX07 starts sv easy and we have ben using one for testing on street sv. For race bikes you don't need more than LFX09 or 8 cell with cylindric. Most of race bikes will do with smallest ones, whatever brand.

 

Not trying to bash the Shorai if you got that impression, and I don't think I did. But I am putting out the options available. And being honest most R1's start before one rotation so the 40 times start up isn't really accurate as to the ability of the battery. It's a bit different from flipping over an Aprilia Mille thats hot and gets hard to start and where larger cranking amps will help. IN addition most bikes have much better starting performance using a battery with more than 120 cca... A more powerful higher amp battery allows the voltage to ignition to stay higher, while the motor is being turned and allows for a bigger spark and faster turning motor...thats a fact.

If the 4 cell Cylindric can start a bike and is half the size of the Shorai and weighs less... I should think that should be pointed out... I know you sell the Shorai, and they offer a great margin on sales, and have the resources to promote like crazy, but I think it relative to point out the facts and options...especially since I am a small company producing a great product but now competing (or not even close to competing) with a large company importing batteies from china offering high margins to retailers... just sayin':up:

Its all good for the riders and racers there is options.

 

Since you compared with Shorai I just wanted to point out that cca is not issue. You need enough to start bike and have some reserve. Having another 100 on top of that is not really needed. Check what OEM lead batteries have for cca and there is no issue.
You do get extra by default with stacking up 4 cells at time but you don't really need it.
Bottom line is everything your 4 cell does LFX07 will do, and so on in increasing size. You may have more cca depending what size is picked but you also gaining weight and cost over shorai. It is not really good comparison, some things you are up some down. I think comparing either one to what we are used for so many years is better, stock lead battery. In which case every one of this mentioned here will outperform it.
You can see that Shorai choose this with their battery, compare it to OEM and designate it by size to about equal as replacement. They are not limited by stacking cells so they can make right size for every application in same physical package. LFX07 is same size as LFX14 with increase in weight of ~1/2#.
Yes, they are assembled in China but all parts are sourced from Japan. They have highest standard, ISO9000. Try to get that certification soldering batteries on your garage bench and let me know how it works.
ps. we had LFX09 in Ducati 1000 last weekend at Fontana races and few sv's with same one. No problems. My R1 is sitting in cold garage and not ridden, it takes 3-4 seconds to fire up. 40 times like that without charging battery is pretty good for 102cca.
I also think we will see more companies like Shorai coming out, wonder how long before OEM switches over.

 

Love my Antigravity. Great communication and super nice product, thanks again Scott.

 

TWF2,

I believe someone posted this question already but did not see an answer....is the Shorai "wrapped" in carbon fiber? If so, since carbon can conduct electricity, is there a possibility this battery could short itself out?

 

Shorai say it is military spec carbon fiber composite. I have no clue what properties are. It is not usual carbon fiber we are used to see on many parts. It looks more like stock battery plastic wrap just stronger. They used this stuff on airplanes, submarines, boats before we got bike batteries so I am sure they know what they doing. I also believe if there was problem it should be covered under iso9000 certification. You asking me something I have no answer for. They do have faq page https://www.shoraipower.com/t-faq.aspx and you can always call them for more info. There is also warranty to cover any manufacturing issue if something happens to battery.

 

Hey TWF, felt I should reply to some of your comments since some are quite erroneous...I want to point out I'm not out to bash Shorai, but to correctly state facts.

You keep saying this and while there is some truth, this is not entirely accurate... having another 100 amps at your disposal in a smaller package is very beneficial. As I stated it offers a larger spark on initial turn over, it allows for a faster motor turn over which really benefits the carburated bikes. Further more the reason they don't have it with Lead or Prismatic is that they cannot do it without making the battery much larger...Not because it's not desired. And there are many bikes, not just SVs that benefit from this...High compression motors, drag bikes, big baggers, customs... etc...more power and smaller is desirable.

Contrary to that information implying there is a limit to Cylindric Cells, there is only 2 sizes of Shorai and they use foam to make up the differnces in size for the battery box... Also, there is no "limit" from stacking cells at all, and there is a benefit... The fact is... Every one of my batteries is smaller than the equivilent Shorai, its either smaller in every dimension or in the case of depth equal to it...It can put out more power in a smaller format. So in fact all my batteries can fit in to a smaller space so there is no "Cylindric won't fit correctly" as implied. But if you want a more standardized format the Shorai is meets that requirement.

Nice smug little smiley face BUT you quoted out of complete ignorance on what ISO9000 is. So I will have to explain it to you...

The ISO9000 DOES NOT PERTAIN TO PRODUCT QUALITY, DESIGN, or MANUFACTURE QUALITY, or any form of SPECIFICATION. Did you get that? The fact is there are no requirements for meeting the ISO9000 but if you meant ISO 9001... that refers ONLY to quality management standards in regard to Customer Service. Once again nothing to do with guidelines for design, manufacture, or build quality...it is ONLY a customer service Cert. And Shorai site says they have the ISO9000 which doesn't have requirement... But I will give you credit for posting your smiley face and not know what you were talking about

In fact the factory that was making the Melamine in the baby powder that killed the kids was ISO9000 certified so were the companies with lead in the paint of childrens toys shipping to the USA... so lets put that one aside

This is not to bash or say the Shorai is built bad at all... I'm sure it functions as designed. I like the case for certain applications...

I responded to show your lack of knowledge on the subjects of which you speak. You made a statement as if my company built an inferior product thinking ISO9000 was some manufacture quality control and a little shop soldering was somehow inferior...Not to professional.

We actually build a product that can be truthfully claimed as the smallest, lightest, most powerful battery for motosports.

So check what your stating as fact before posting because I don't wish the possible customer to be mislead to thinking you know what you are talking about. I don't expect to compete with Shorai for sales volume but I do expect to sell to people who seek what Antigravity offers without being misled by non factual comments like yours.

P.S... I had a couple batteries out Fontana too... and I actually had some batteries in the AMA Supercross Series in the Factory supported KTM SX team JDR Motosports in the AMA SX and SX light classes at Anaheim.:up:

No need to carry the debate forward... there is an application for both styles.

Regards,

Scott-

 

If it's the same output as a typical 4-cell Lithium, I wouldn't recommend a 4-cell on a 675. Tried it, and only provided 5 seconds of slow cranking. This is a race bike with higher compression, but no lights.

8-cell worked like a charm :up:

Overall, I'm amazed on how fast these things re-charge. Way more durable than the stock Lead acid unit.

I do recommend the quick-disconnect, for you don't want to leave them out in the cold. I learned to bring mine back with me to the hotel if it's under 50 at night.

 

Our starters draw 1000w max (most of them), that is 83A. I don't need 400A for that. I do understand advantage of more but there is point where you don't need it. I am not starting bulldozer and will be cranking it for hours. If you have to drain 120cca battery (cylindric or prismatic) to start the bike problem is not battery. If you read shorai site their batteries are designed for cranking in first place. Just like in lead where you have starting battery and deep cycle one. You got plenty cca in deep cycle but you still don't want to use it for starting. Different purpose.
I did not imply than cylindric will not fit bike, just that you have to stack them while shorai box size does not change in size from 7a to 14a battery. Size is about same as 8 cell cylindric. They do have 2 sizes and so far I been selling about same number of each. Street guys actually prefer bigger boxes. Either one will fit any bike. So will your cylindric.
I mentioned iso certification because you do have to meet criteria to get it. Only because you mentioned China. I don't judge product by where it is assembled but rather is it good product or not. Junk is made everywhere, in USA and China. And good products are also made everywhere.
When shorai product starts falling apart or failing than we can talk again, for now I don't know of single case. Personally I believe it is best value out there for lightweight batteries and reason I am selling it. I also don't have problem with cylindric battery, used it in my sv for two years.

 

It is not same, look at video I posted. That is LFX14 on triumph. They are designed to crank bike.
I tried 4 cell on my sv and it was slow and sometime it had hard time. I switched to 8 cell and it was much better. Still little slow at start but it would pick up. I think this is main difference between shorai and cylindric. So far shorai spins motor easy without that slow period. I am not sure if all cylindric are like that but the one I had was and few more people reported same.

 

Hi TWF,

What brand Cylindric are you using? It may not have been charged fully or maybe they aren't made with real A123 Cells. An 8 cell should be flipping the SV very fast... The 8-cell starts up to 1200cc bikes darn good.

West Coast GP Cycles is using my batteries and they have very many SVs on the team and they flip those fast and furious.

Also KC from BRG Racing emailed me last week saying their SV was flipping over "really fast" (his quote) using the 8 cell... said he was very impressed and he made a special Case for it as seen below...4 wide inches by 2" inches deep by 3.25 inches tall.

People can call those shops to get their experiences on the 8-cell Antigravity use in the SVs specifically.

 

For anyone interested, I met Jason from full spectrum power today and was amazed at some of the info I was given by talking to him. Very easy going guy, talked to him at the bike show in dc. for probably about 30 mins. Been happy with the battery I bought from him around a year ago, and was pleasantly surprised with the approachability after purchase.

 

I had turntech, 2 years in my bike and never had problem with it. It just does not spin fast right away like stock or shorai does. Other people with other cell batteries reported same. It may not be same on all bikes, I don't follow stuff outside my work that much, I mostly deal with sv's.
KC has been making that box for 10 years now . Personally I don't like battery there, specially not without moving relay next to battery. I don't think long cables and engine heat will help battery.

 

I have a GSXR750 stock motor and R6 fully built motor from KWS. I am going to buy the Shorai LFX09 and the 4 cell Antigrav and let yall know!! What ya think?!

 

Well or the moty or ballistic, Im only buying 2 so let me know what yall want tested! I just figured Shorai and Anti cuz they having a good argument!