Race tires that work without warmers

On a Vintage bike, which isn't going to load/stress the tires like a 200hp modern Liter bike, I would look at something like a Q3. They are more than capable (ive seen JD40 run :58's at Tally and :17's at Jennings on a 675R on Q3's), but they will heat up faster than race tires and wont be as affected by heat cycles.

 

No warmers? Get an old airstream (period correct bonus points), polish it up real shiny, and park your bike in front of it......

I never used warmers with my F3. Warm up lap would get them close, and the by the first lap or two of the race I was %100. Of course I lost a lot of time in those first laps by not going %100. The only tire I ever had a problem with was the Bridgestone r10. I was cold tearing the shit out of the fronts, and I'm sure warmers would have solve that issue, and would have paid for themselves in saved tires alone. If I were to go racing again now, I'd get off my wallet and buy warmers for sure.

 

Maybe it's just the "every competitive advantage" seeker in me, but I'd be building a mirror array around the bike that would rival some of the solar collectors in the desert.

 

Mine are solar powered already. I've been green longer than anyone else

Steven Isenhower #52

 

What do you do if it's not sunny and hot?

 

Don't do it: you can effect change as a member...don't risk your enjoyment and friendships...just one mans opinion.

 

Same thing I've been doing for over 20 yrs. Use warm up lap to get them warm
Let me be clear here. I've heard the oh tires last longer and there not up to temperature.
I have always ran my tires longer than most and while I'm older now and slower I did and have run lap record pace from 96 in 600 class all over the different states.
Now if you look at my 1st last lap times they are right there with everyone that uses warmers. Now most of you guys don't have any experience without warmers. The tire guys and everyone else tells you you need them.
It's a personal choice for me and I race V7 vintage class.
I also spent countless hours practicing on cold tires. I've also won races on slicks in the rain.
Is it safe? For me it is.
The man ask a question and truthfully I'm probably only one who can answer it with facts and experience.
But do what makes you feel comfortable.
But I can say that if a tire warmer goes down the racers who rely on them panic.
Their out of their comfort zone.
Not me.
I'm not here to debate this.
Be safe and go have fun.

Steven Isenhower #52

 

Amusing to be sure but this only really heats up the outer most surface of of the center of the tire and doesn't do much about warming up the entire carcass to actually hold some heat in there....not to mention flatspotting the middle of the tire

 

Steve, just because you CAN do it doesn't mean you SHOULD. I think you have PTSD from the CMRA debacle though, we can disagree and you won't get your job called or the last 15 years of irs records pulled. I promise.

 

Nah folks just follow what a person tells them. I started before tire warmers where ever made.
Hutchinson just thought I was nuts when I asked about tire pressures.
He tells me pressure off warmers and my buddy laughed.
But again my 1st lap times are same as others in my class. I ran Classic and LW40 in Cmra back in 2011.
So it doesn't hurt me at all.
It's about confidence in what your doing is all.
And if it makes you feel better to run them by all means run them.
But I ran my tires 3 race weekends at 2 races on Sunday back in 2011 on Bridgestones. I'm doing same on Pirelli and if no one shows up at Nola I run them longer.
I've run slicks since 2000 on vintage bikes.
Before that I ran Dunlop Dots.
But I'm lazy and cheap.
And I don't have to worry about power for them and all the crap to use them like everyone else.
Hell look at my videos on my Facebook or youtube.
It explains itself.
Be safe and have a great day.

Steven Isenhower #52

 

Steven,

I ran without warmers too, when I first started racing in 1990. If you were running in the 600 or 1000 modern classes, and didn't run warmers, your 1st lap times wouldn't be the same as the others.

 

If your talking about mid 90 to 99 I did run up front in 600 class.
But then again guy ask about vintage stuff. Lol.
Hell I've even finished 3rd overall from last on grid at Nola a few times on my F3
But don't mistake my laziness. I have no motivation to go faster unless someone shows up in my class at certain tracks.
Again it's what make you feel better.
I just didn't see a difference the few times I ran them.
Just less crap I need to haul around and it's not broken so I don't need to fix something for my program.
Lap times speak for themselves.

Steven Isenhower #52

 

Steven I have run with and without warmers (even on a v7 bike) and can assure you that they make a very big difference in that first lap or two.

Though I will say, if one of your warmers fails, I would strongly consider using no warmers over just one warmer on one tire. I tried that once in a practice back when I was a novice and had about 3 near crashes in 5 corners.

 

I'm not saying they don't help people.
Just not me. Again my results and lap times don't suffer front nit using them.
I also don't use traction control or any other rider aids. Lol.
I'm also 52 yrs old and started when I was 26. I know how to pick my battles and a class that works for me.
My hands have given me problems the whole time I've raced.
Motivation is biggest problem now as it hurts to race.
I've only ever high sided once on the 1st lap. And it was a slick tire and a brand I had never run in a slick.
It was also 1st time I ran it.
Lesson learned.
What I'm saying is if you keep track of Temps and pressures and don't or can't use warmers you can still be safe with some testing and learning.
Now if I was a factory rider and a fast expert with money on line.
I would use them. But I'm not and don't use them or need them.
And I'm still competitive on 1st lap and last lap of my classes so far.
It's all what your comfortable with.
I travel light anyways. Lol.
But it can be done.

Steven Isenhower #52

 

Can it be done (racing without tire warmers)? Yes. It can be done. Have I done it? Yes. I have done it. I've also finished endurance race stints on shredded rain tires after the track dried out. But is it a great idea to ignore a modern development like tire warmers that can enlarge the safety envelope when you're racing a big-ass steel-framed Superbike or Formula bike from back in the day, on modern 17-inch tires? N0.

Talking about being period correct is all fine and dandy, but to really be period correct (in some classes) guys would need to run non-oxygenated fuel, narrow rims and bias-ply tires and also wear pudding bowl helmets, leathers without armor, boots without padding or armor, and gloves that shred at first contact. And the tracks would need to be set up without very many haybales and without any Airfence. And the walls would need to be pulled in closer and the gravel traps removed.

Not that it makes any difference, but that's my opinion based on my personal experience racing on Continental, Pirelli, Metzeler, Michelin, Bridgestone and Dunlop tires on bikes ranging from a 50cc Rimghini to an 1176cc GS1100-powered Moriwaki F1/endurance bike over a 43-year period, with race wins in five consecutive decades (1970s, 1980s, 1990s, 2000s and 2010s). Your experience and opinion may vary, and we can agree to disagree and go racing!

 

Cb900f

 

Im with you Steven,I started out on 391dunlops.My question stems more from my assumption that modern race tires are made with warmers in mind,and if so,maybe a hypersport tire,as John mentioned above,may work better if warmers aren't allowed.......I've been out of the race scene for a while.

 

as you can see I'm don't think I will find anyone who agrees with me on this. LOL Didn't figure I would.
Tires are made for grip and to wear out. I can get on a bike and without knowing the brand I can tell you what brand it is.
There all good from old days. I just don't have the mental block about tires like most and I'm slow.
But it can be done if you have too is all I'm saying.
the looks on peoples faces is classic.. The new tires for vintage bikes aka 18s are pretty good compared to a 591.
I don't use that size but ive heard they rock. Just stick to what I said and you will be ok.
everyone else is in same boat so take it easy on 1st lap and then turn it up.
now if you get a chance to do a track day then you can get data. be safe and best of luck.

Steven Isenhower #52

 

Given what I saw on that video you posted of your race with Tuna at Tally, you aren't blowing smoke with that comment. You're right there from the drop of the flag.

 

Thanks. I shot myself in foot there. those tires where from Before GNF. LOL
I didn't think anyone would show up in class. LOL OPPS.
But man did tuna ride, showed me that being lazy is not a good thing,
Actually EBOZ and Tuna both gave me a riding lesson.
But I had fun and learned a few thing that have been bothering me about my bike.
on to RA.

Steven Isenhower #52