Enough, let's see the books!

Discussion in 'General' started by CRRC93, May 13, 2018.

  1. VFR#52

    VFR#52 Well-Known Member

    So then explain how lonestar stayed doing them for over ten yrs till they closed for business.
    Also id like to see why and how Cmra was still putting on races is they are in the red at end of yr?
    But the actual fact is that Cmra gets a better track rental rate because of how long they have been doing then.
    Now lets see a check wrote out to Cmra from lonestar for Friday rental fees and necessities for Friday?
    But as no one has seen an itemized accounting of anything this is what we are shown.
    But thats not all that sticks out on any of these yearly financials posted.
    There is a whole lot not in these sheets.
    Im sure that if the BOD know that they will loose money on Friday trackdays then they wouldn't be doing them at all like other organizations.

  2. Trunxgp1224

    Trunxgp1224 Well-Known Member

    They probably came up with the 3 years because part of the Texas business code (which doesn't apply to CMRA) states that records must be kept 3 years for public inspection. Or if you're on the conspiracy side of things, the lawsuit started 4 years ago, so it's the records in years 4+ that are in question because they would have cleaned up years 1-3 during the suit. I don't know if anyone has requested detailed financials, I haven't because I'm not interested in 1-3 I'm curious about 4+

    Without going back to see the actual policy, and someone will probably request I be booted form the CMRA for posting things from the member only portion of the BBS. The P&L are posted on the website but if anyone want's to see bank statements, ledgers, expense reports, debit card usage then they have to go to the office and request all of that which may or may not incur a reasonable fee depending on what work is involved and any copies needed to be made. Things are made more confusing lately because the new club administrator that was hired and based in Waco with Walter has moved out of state for their spouses career move so they work remotely. The principal office is still listed as Waco so I'm not sure who you'd contact, where to go, and who would actually help in person with those things. Damn, now I need to figure out where to send my sponsorship checks too
  3. ChemGuy

    ChemGuy Harden The F%@# Up!

    Kinda sounds like they can though.
  4. SwiftWings

    SwiftWings Member

    You can fuck a goat, until the farmer complains.
    Rich likes this.
  5. CMRA 270

    CMRA 270 Comes here for the latest CMRA gossip

    Hell, I'd love to know how I did it too! Even better, I'd love to know WHY I did it! You're telling everyone here that I personally risked jail time covering for people who stole money from the CMRA?

    Dammit. I'm a nicer guy than I thought I was.

    What'd you get in the settlement? $125K? $150k?
  6. CMRA 270

    CMRA 270 Comes here for the latest CMRA gossip

    I've answered this question at least 4-5 times for you. You don't like it, so you keep bringing back up. The CMRA is a racing organization, not a track day organization. The models are a bit different. I PERSONALLY don't like the CMRA running Friday practices. I was one of the people who built the financial model when the CMRA brought it back in house. Among the challenges are; corner workers, staff (additional days and/or different staff) insurance, need to develop a program for non-member riders/unlicensed racers, and NOT THE LEAST OF financial exposure to poor weather weekends. I don't like it. I'd rather another organization shoulder that risk reward. Stephen, you keep insisting that the CMRA HAD THE OBLIGTION TO RUN FRIDAYS AS THEY MADE MONEY. Under that reasoning, we should also be the tire vendors, hot dog vendors, massage therapy provider and any other thing that would make money.

    The confict thing is kind of silly; The two major providers of track days were Lone Star and RideSmart. Wonders is NOT interested (generally) in doing the Fridays prior to CMRA race weekends, and doesn't do NOLA...and I don't think he does, or doesn't like to do Hallett (which runs Fridays on their own if I'm not mistaken)

    I've now explained this to you 5-6 times, @Mongo has explained it at least a couple...dude...there's no duty (and conservatively not the best practice) for the CMRA to run Friday practice.
    Last edited: Apr 15, 2019
  7. VFR#52

    VFR#52 Well-Known Member

    See now this is where you not being in club that long shows.
    Just looking at the financials proves it does pay for itself.
    But the club has been doing trackdays way before anyone else.
    I know cause i got my license in 1990 at one.
    But again we have not been able to see the complete set of books to see who is right.
    But as ive pointed out if it didn't make money then why was lonestar doung since mid 2000s?
    Obviously he made money or he wouldn't have made sure to keep doing them.
    How many Trackdays did lonestar do other than Cmra Friday practice?
    But at least you replied.
    But as a business owner i do know that if i lost money with ever job i did pretty soon id stop doing them.
    Whats issue is he had a captive audience of club members and at that time charged more than any other trackday organization in Texas.
    Called conflict of interest and the club should be running them for club members.

  8. CMRA 270

    CMRA 270 Comes here for the latest CMRA gossip

    Steven, easier put; neither the BOD nor the club has any responsibility to run Friday practice. They might or might not. It's simply not an issue or even a topic.

    Ok, you may be argue that there is a conflict of interest with Steve running LSTD, but it's flimsy. LSTD did a fantastic job running those events. They were able to do things as a for profit organization that weren't as easy to accomplish for the CMRA. It's like...so what? Steve, when he was president, couldn't even vote on this or any other matter...the president doesn't vote unless there's a tie.

    You realize that you, Inge, Harding (who is that guy?) and Linz are saying;

    Something like 30+ people conspired over a decade and a half to steal money.

    Among those people;

    Bill and Nancy, respected people who have served the CMRA AND THE INDUSTRY for decades.
    Norm McDonald, the treasurer, past president AND AMA HALL OF FAMER
    Numerous volunteer BOD members(20?) NONE OF WHOM have access to a single dollar bill or a check book.
    The CMRA's CPA who has done our monthly AND ANNUAL records for 10 years.
    Most of the Phillips family...not a more respectable and respected family AND individuals one would find...
    The CMRA's non-profit legal counsel


    When the CMRA is forced to file for bankruptcy;

    EVERY MEMBER (some 400) are sent the ENTIRE bankruptcy package WITH INSTRUCTIONS on how to challenge or protest the bankruptcy.

    NOT ONE MEMBER, save Van Harding (who I don't believe actually protested it...I could be wrong) OBJECTED TO THE PLAN

    125 people (25% of the membership) signed a petition supporting the plan.

    NOT A SINGLE PERSON showed up in court besides Harding to protest the bankruptcy.

    So let's review quickly; the membership overwhelmingly supports the club and the leadership. Any conspiracy to steal money would be huge under the watch of 25-30 people, a CPA firm and lately, an attorney hired by the club. Even the ignorant (a former BOD president here) says he didn't think anything was going during his watch.

    Simply put, members want this behind us and want to get back to racing. They want to leave the bullshit and drama where it belongs...on this board. The BOD is now enforcing a "sue us and get your ass tossed out" along with "we can refuse service..." which they can and should.

    Oh, both Inge Harding HAVE "THE BOOKS".

    Any other exchange on this topic between you and I is pointless. These are the facts. The end.

    Last edited: Apr 15, 2019
  9. SwiftWings

    SwiftWings Member

    This new policy was not disclosed to the IRS in the 2018 returns, or the bankruptcy court.

    Sounds like you have 374 goats and Harding, one guy with balls.
    VFR#52 likes this.
  10. VFR#52

    VFR#52 Well-Known Member

    So i guess it ok to just do as you please while being a BOD member of a non profit racing organization as long as members dont say anything or do anything?
    And the ones who did got tossed out.
    And the best part is that members where all kept in the dark about everything until bankruptcy.
    Smooth operation there.
    No accountability for any stealing or nothing?
    But i noticed that you didn't answer any questions i have asked again.
    But your right the members didn't care enough and it showed.

  11. CMRA 270

    CMRA 270 Comes here for the latest CMRA gossip

    New policy? Dickheads need not apply nor get to stay? Is this an IRS or a general societal deal?

    Not sure if the one guy had balls or not...no one had ever seen him before.
  12. Mongo

    Mongo Administrator

    I am curious since you're so in the know - how could a club with more in assets than liabilities be forced to declare bankruptcy? Was it because you paid or are going to pay for Shandras lawyer fees and the settlement of her lawsuit?

    I'm not sure the BOD has the power to throw members out like that. They do not own the business and they work for the members - including those who might choose to sue... I see that leading to more lawyers long term.
  13. CMRA 270

    CMRA 270 Comes here for the latest CMRA gossip

    The model isn't working essentially. We're working against margin erosion, had a horrible season last year due to rain, have a reduced schedule this year AND the BOD is not covered by insurance after the Inge suit. The club has a duty to indemnify the BOD members past and present and has and would have to pay those legal bills. That's not even a legal discussion. There was no choice but to file for reorganization. The protracted legal battles have been a serious strain. The judge in the chapter 11 hearing spoke specifically to the point of indemnification.

    There was no settlement in Shandra's case as far as I'm aware.

    To be clear; the members do NOT own the club. The bylaws are clear now that members may not be renewed AND CAN BE removed. Starting a litigation against the club is a danged good reason to be removed...or not renewed which was the case with Harding and Linz. There's sound legal precedent and it's in the bylaws. NO ONE has been removed from the club for asking for financials. It's simply not true.

    I don't completely believe in the premise that the BOD is working FOR THE MEMBERS. The BOD is comprised of members who grid up just like everyone else. They are entrusted to keep the business operations up and running, on an unpaid voluntary basis. In that regard, it's my view that each BOD member is working to keep the club running and solvent by making the best decisions they can with the skillsets that they bring. While my belief is that anyone who has the capabilities to lend in guiding the clubs mission has a duty to step up and do so, it's the shittiest job one could ever have....oh yeah, and it's unpaid...oh yeah, and some dickheads will sue you because you're just trying to maintain a club so said dickheads have a place to race in the first place.
    Last edited: Apr 16, 2019
  14. Mongo

    Mongo Administrator

    Okay, the members don't own the club - no one does, I get that.

    Saying that Peyton and Harding weren't removed for wanting to see the books id disingenuous at best. If they'd been able to see everything - not just a P&L sheet out of Quickbooks - the lawsuits would never have happened. So kind of cart/horse situation.

    If the BOD isn't working for the club - which is it's members - then who is the BOD working for? I work for WERA sure but WERA while it is Evelyne is also all of our customers and doing right for them is part of the gig.

    On the insurance - so you can get liability event insurance but no one will do liability for any of the BOD? Interesting.
  15. CMRA 270

    CMRA 270 Comes here for the latest CMRA gossip

    Inge decided that since he didn't get elected, the election was rigged and started demanding all types of things. This is just my opinion and prior to my board involvement; as much as I liked Inge's irreverence, a lot of what he did caused issues for Walter and a lot of the staff prior to the election. The BOD had enough and tossed him. Was it against the bylaws? I don't know...maybe...but the result would not have changed; they got tired of his crap and tossed him out. It's my guess that Inge got $150K in the settlement. That's an educated guess. He got paid however...and he's seen the books....like the big ass'd 5 inch binders. I think three or four (5?) total.

    Harding is different; Harding asked to see the books when (it's my understanding) they we sealed by the court. He took particular offense that Inge's case was tossed because Inge didn't have standing (read the first post on this thread). LAST SPRING, Harding was supplied with the books and records going back to at least 2011...as far as any existed. He's had the books but insisted on maintaining the suit. Hardings license WAS NOT RENEWED as he initiated a law suit. He asked for something that the CMRA could not supply and then sued. THIS INFORMATION IS IN THE COURT TRANSCRIPT WHICH CURIOUSLY DID NOT GET POSTED. So no, it's not disingenuous.

    The whole working for the club IS MY PERSONAL view. Look at it this way; you work for WERA, but are you a customer of WERA? BOD members are CUSTOMERS AND CAREGIVERS. My belief is that we are the caretakers of the club. I'm cautious to say the members are customers...as a few then begin to demand of the BOD what the BOD is not...providers of a service. I know its convoluted, but I believe there's a difference. However...doing right FOR THEM and THE CLUB? Yes, 100% agree...

    Insurance? Different; event yes, but D&O no. The rejection of coverage was that it stemmed from the original suit if I recall that correctly.
  16. dantheman

    dantheman Yeah, it hurt.....

    $150K you say? Are those dollars going back to the club, you know to keep costs down? :)
  17. A. Barrister

    A. Barrister Well-Known Member

    @CMRA 270 , you mention that the board members are not paid. Curious then, why all the bank deposits to some of the board members personal bank accounts? (from the links VFR#52 posted) Do you have an explanation for this?
  18. CMRA 270

    CMRA 270 Comes here for the latest CMRA gossip

    Ask Inge...I'm not a lawyer, but I'd be a damn sexy one on TV :crackup:: I kinda thought he was suing on behalf of the CMRA membership. As a member...I've not seen my cut.
  19. CMRA 270

    CMRA 270 Comes here for the latest CMRA gossip

    Sure. Bill Syfan was a board member and his wife, Nancy Selleck used to be our administrator. BOD members don't have access to a checkbook, don't count or handle cash nor do they have signatory authority to write a check.

    I have no idea or explanation of where the money came from that was deposited by Nancy (or Bill) into their personal accounts but I DO KNOW where it DIDN'T come from and that was CMRA business dealings.

    Making sure I'm clear here; there are no exhibits showing deposits to any other BOD members bank accounts with the exception of Bill and Nancy (BOD member and administrator respectively).
    Last edited: Apr 16, 2019
  20. Mongo

    Mongo Administrator

    Maybe not deposits but there are payments to BOD members - looks like you do get paid at the events. Relatively normal if you're working tech or grids or reg or the like.
    VFR#52 and CMRA 270 like this.

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