Don't Go Drinking in Canada!

Discussion in 'The Dungeon' started by rcarson15, Jan 10, 2019.

  1. younglion

    younglion Well-Known Member

    I'm a Canadian, live in BC, and I frequently travel to the US for work, vacations, and for 9 years ('06-'15) - to Club Race/win track days. :)

    I'll be a brief as possible and put this in bullet point form to not write a damn novel but here's what happened to me last summer:

    - a group of 5 middle aged buddies (one's a local traffic cop) and I rode our street bikes down late May to cross WA State and ride 5-6 days in OR State.
    - Day 1 after lunch we were riding in 3 groups of 2 - roughly 6-7 minutes apart from each other. I was just ahead of a friend in the middle group.
    - We were seemingly in the middle of nowhere on Highway #20 crossing the State West to East - first time in this area for myself.
    - perfect riding conditions, mid-week, zero traffic - in a 60mph highway zone.
    - I rounded a downhill sweeper and passed an SUV Police vehicle that had it's lights on - we were going in opposite directions (his dash cam shows I was in the footage for 0.9 seconds before passing each other around the corner)
    - I slowed a little and continued on as I checked my mirror and he was out of sight already but kept an eye out in case he turned around and was behind me as I was speeding so thought there was an outside chance he might have hit his lights to warn me to slow down. I continued at the speed limit, checked my mirrors a couple times, nothing.
    - 1 minute later I legally overtook 2 cars then I go around a couple more corners and see signs for the town we were entering - "Welcome to Okanagon, slow to 25 mph..."
    - The group agreed to connect for a gas stop around this time so I rode into town looking for the 2 riders who were out front - didn't see em so pulled over just off Main St to wait for the three riders behind me to catch up.
    - I pulled over, took off my helmet and gloves and as I did a Sheriff car approaches from the East, pulls the nose of his car right up to me, exits the car after he hits the lights and pulls his gun on me (he's about 12' away at this point) and yells "Do not move or I will shoot you, DO YOU UNDERSTAND???"
    - I'm in full leathers with my arms stretched outward and hands up in the universal "I give up" pose, crapping my pants and say "I'm not going to move" to which he repeats his words 2-3 more times, each time I say back the same thing - "I AM NOT going to move officer".
    - He directs me to lay face down, cuffs me, then radios other cops our location and tell them he has me at gun point.
    - I ask what is happening and he says I'm being charged with Felony Evading Police as I didn't stop when I was signalled.
    - I tell him my side of the story (Who stops for an approaching emergency vehicle that already has it's lights on - nobody here does, you just pull over a tad to let them pass you safely when travelling in opposite directions as we were).
    - other cops arrive (cop who has flashing lights on stopped my other buddy to ask where I was, so he didn't catch up), they lie to me about my rights, force me to give a recorded statement, then bring me to County jail.
    - I'm booked in and put in a communal cell (concrete brick room with no windows, you are in the cell 24 hours a day, no TV/books, 1 phone, and a steel toilet to use in the middle of the room, no privacy, if you need to have a crap or shower right next to it) with 27 other career criminals and drug addicts and held for 48 hours until I'm released on bail and given over to Border guys who feel I need to be escorted out of the country.
    - Border guys take retina scans, more finger prints, and inform me that no matter what, from here on out, I'll have an "A" file and for the rest of my life even if the charges are dropped or reduced, I'll be under scrutiny and surveillance anytime I re-enter the U.S. as the new retina scanners are so amazing I'll be picked up in any building like an airport, border crossing, subway station, etc... and then followed the entire time they have eyes on me.

    Long story longer - I hire a lawyer, the whole ordeal costs me well over $20,000, I used all of my vacation time travelling down and back for court dates and lawyer visits, and I now have a conviction for a misdemeanour in the U.S.

    Prosecutor took one look at the dash cam footage, listened to my statement, read the police report, and immediately asked us to make a deal and plea it down from Felony to Misdemeanour which I agreed to ( I was speeding afterall and according to state law guilty of reckless driving (82mph in a 60 zone). In my sentencing hearing last month the Judge asked why I wasn't still being charged with a Felony and the Prosecutor told him exactly that - there's 6 criteria they need to prove, 1 of which is that I knowingly was evading the police and "running" and nothing about the evidence showed that - there was never a pursuit, I was apprehended in town while pulled over on main street - not exactly OJ in a Bronco running away.

    Guilty charge came with $1200 in fines and court fees, I had to do 40 hours community service work, and I was issued a 30 day drivers license suspension which is also valid here in BC.

    My buddy the Cop who was with us was almost in physical shock when I saw him in the courthouse the day after I was arrested and brought in for my arraignment in shackles, leg chains, and prison jumpsuit and saw the others who were up in front of a judge that day and I was sharing a cell with - murderers, a guy with 40 outstanding warrants and rape charges, etc... I'm 45, ZERO criminal record, NEVER charged with anything, NEVER seen a courtroom in my life, NEVER seen a prison in real life - squeaky clean as they say until that day. Not gonna lie, it was the most surreal scary thing I've ever gone through - walking into a cell with 27 guys surrounding you screaming "fresh meat" and telling me to "stick to my own kind"...

    My cop buddy said that 2 hours north in Canada it would have been a $376 fine for excessive speed and if I had priors or was mouthing off, maybe an impound - otherwise I'd have been on my way.

    This leaves me more than a little jaded about the US - I've never EVER had a gun pointed at my face and told that if I moved, I'd be shot. Call me a pussy or timid but that's something I would never have envisioned in my wildest dreams would happen, let alone for that "offence".
  2. Funkm05

    Funkm05 Dork

    So ... you’re ripping through a mountain pass with some buddies, doing 22 over, don’t pull over for an emergency vehicle with its lights on, continue on rolling, and it’s the laws/cops that are f@cked up?? Fer reals??
  3. speeddaddy

    speeddaddy Well-Known Member

    Wow. Similar deal, I was arrested north of Flagstaff in ‘99 for doing 122 on a 60 hwy.Two days in Coconino County Prison . Judge gave me time served.
  4. Motofun352

    Motofun352 Well-Known Member

    Wow, that's so far from anything I've experienced or anyone I know, for that matter and I got tagged for 95 in a 55! Some cops have a thing for bikers who try to outrun them, not that you did, but I'd guess that's what he thought. Not right and no reason to pull his weapon. Once things escalate to this level I can see them trying to justify it by throwing the book at you. Again, not right but it's the way it can go sometimes. SUX big time. Almost sounds as if the prosecutor knew it to.
    badmoon692008 likes this.
  5. younglion

    younglion Well-Known Member

    The Cop says he had me at that speed from almost a mile earlier as he approached and again as we passed each other at 74mph.

    I didn’t pull over as I wasn’t signalled to, do you typically pull over when a cop passes you with his lights on? If he turned around and was behind me, OBVIOUSLY I’d have pulled over and would have expected a ticket.

    I assumed (incorrectly) he was on a call elsewhere or at worst flashed me to get me to slow.

    Not to be combative but 82 on a deserted mountain road was far from “ripping” - for the split second I’m on camera I’m bolt upright on my naked bike with one hand on my hip as I leave the frame. Not exactly Ghost Rider.
    K51000 likes this.
  6. Funkm05

    Funkm05 Dork

    You do know that you’re supposed to pull over for any emergency vehicle with lights on on a non-divided roadway in the States, right?
  7. zertrider

    zertrider Waiting for snow. Or sun.

    Yer a special kind of stupid aren't you?
    jbammin, badmoon692008, jase and 4 others like this.
  8. younglion

    younglion Well-Known Member

    No, I didn’t actually.

    To clarify again, I seen the cop with lights already on for under 1 second, and when I checked my mirror he was already out of sight around the corner so I never saw brake lights even.

    I’m not claiming total innocence here, just saying that I wasn’t prepared for that type of initial response (gun in face) or the fallout afterwards. (Charges)

    They searched me and my bike and found nothing - no drugs, weapons, nada and made me do a field sobriety test which I passed with flying Colors. Even after hearing my statement they decided to proceed with a class C Felony charge, unbelievable.
    K51000 likes this.
  9. Funkm05

    Funkm05 Dork

    Yup... you sure got me. I’m not sure how you got there, but sure. :rolleyes:
  10. Funkm05

    Funkm05 Dork

    Look, I’m not at all saying they didn’t go full retard on the charges. But I can kinda see some of the initial response. Last time my old man got pulled in IL, they explained that anything 20 or more over meant automatic arrest. Don’t know if it’s the same out there. But let’s assume. Add to that their view (from their standpoint) of you trying to run ... they aren’t exactly going to just look the other way and ask how your day is going.
  11. Prospect

    Prospect Hayai

    Like the cops don't do enough to let you know that they want you to pull over by shouting thrash metal style into their PA system. If a cop wants you to pull over he will definitely do everything he can do to communicate it to you. Try going through the experience younglion went through and have a gun pointed at you by a cop on a power trip unnecessarily screaming like a little girl "do you understand" three times. He was itching to pull that trigger......just itching. Then you will have some empathy for this man.

    I really can't imagine the hardship younglion, that's insane and inhumane treatment right there. Sorry you had to go through that.
    K51000 likes this.
  12. Funkm05

    Funkm05 Dork

    What are you talking about?? They passed on a turn in opposite directions. Exactly how long did the cop have to “shout thrash metal” in the .9 seconds they had (his words)? That’s as dumb a comment as zert’s “response”. All we know about this is his version of events. The version he admits he was speeding at 22 mph over the posted limit, saw the cop’s lights on, didn’t stop or pull over, then got treated to some unquestionably rough treatment by some cops that thought he was trying to outrun them. Damn guys. This isn’t that difficult to understand. But glad to know you were there to witness the cop “screaming like a little girl” ... that’s some cute bullshit you’ve added to your fairytale.
  13. younglion

    younglion Well-Known Member

    I get your point, trust me I have had many long conversations since then with my Cop buddy and others about hindsight and what I would do differently given the chance HOWEVER, everything I've stated I can verify - I have court transcripts/documents, a copy of the dash cam footage, and statements from myself and the arresting officer.

    My Cop friend said in his opinion I should have put on my indicator, slowed, pulled over when safe to do so - gave it a 10 count and if no Cop was seen on his way back around - I could have safely assumed the Cop was on his way to a call elsewhere or was giving me the warning flash. Again - if I had a do-over that's what I'd do (well, not go 22 over as well of course which BTW it's 30mph over for Felony charges or jail time in WA State, I was well under and only liable for a traffic ticket.)

    Prospect - thanks for the kind thoughts man, appreciate it!
    Prospect and Funkm05 like this.
  14. Prospect

    Prospect Hayai

    Screaming like a little girl. Because I've seen countless examples of dash cam/cellphone footage of it happening. The man was at a fuel station with helmet off, he wasn't running or making any sudden moves, there was no need for that overzealous aggression.

    The thrash metal reference is an example of the way they do things, there is also something called a siren and I'm sure if he heard a semblance of it he would have stopped.

    Anyways, you're getting hung up on all the wrong things.

    Let me simplify it, if you you did what younglion did and got treated the same way, would you say it was right, fair and thank the policemen for their service? A simple yes or no will suffice.
    Last edited: Jan 11, 2019
  15. auminer

    auminer Renaissance Redneck

    Well I'll be. You predicted that some fuckwaffle would be an asshole about your tale, and you were right!
  16. Funkm05

    Funkm05 Dork

    Or ... you can do what he did, read what I ACTUALLY wrote, and get the point I was making. But you and prospect can both rock on with your bad selves.
  17. Britt

    Britt MotoBigots Suck

    Speeding is = to Murder, Rape or Robbery...if the cop don't like Motorcyclist..(in his mind all criminals are to be treated alike)
  18. crashman

    crashman Getting slower every day

    Jesus! Ya, I see where some of the anger comes from. Sounds like that cop was a grade A asshole. From what you wrote there was no reason for Barney Fife to go all Dirty Harry on you. And felony evading with jail time? That is just fucking stupid. Had you tried to evade the cocksucker he certainly would not have caught up to you that easily. The whole escort to the border to kick you out of the country took it to a whole other level. Too bad you didn't have a MS13 tat. It seems like people will go out of their way to help those douchebags...

    I thing Britt was right and you just had the misfortune of having an interaction with a cop that hated motorcyclists. I have been stopped a few times and have never had an issue. One guy even let me off with a warning for 30 over.

    I saw the point you were trying to make but it did come across as pretty harsh...
    kangasj likes this.
  19. Funkm05

    Funkm05 Dork

    Let’s see if I can clarify nice and gingerly ... the police response was overkill given the facts from his side of the aisle. However, ALL of it was completely avoidable at points along the way.
    Opportunity 1: don’t speed excessively. I know, we all do/have done it. I speed every day. I set my cruise at 10 over EVERY time. I know it’s a risk, and I accept that.
    Opportunity 2: Pull over when you see a police car with lights on. You know you’re speeding. Odds aren’t in your favor it’s purely coincidental. Possible, sure. Probable? Far less likely.
    Having the benefit of hindsight, which he has obviously taken, put yourself in their shoes. Speeder on a bike wearing full leathers (racer?) is speeding through a canyon road that’s likely well known for such things (they didn’t travel from Canada hoping to maybe find one). They encounter a speeder, flip the lights on and dude rolls on, passes a few more cars, and keeps running. They pull his buddy and likely just called ahead that they had a reckless runner. Was it the reality? Not from his viewpoint. From their side of the aisle, the same facts he lays out were obviously interpreted differently. Now, at no point have I disagreed or even implied the response was justified. I said point blank the charges were full retard once the true circumstances were known. I would posit the approach to the stop likely was, as well. But on the flip side, given their known interactions with him to that point ... evading ... they had no reason to suspect he was just gonna be like “Hey guys, wanna grab a coffee?”

    Ok, maybe not gingerly, but let’s not sit here and pretend he didn’t do anything wrong and was just pulled for RWC. Even he can/has admitted as much.

    Now ... I think I’ve met my beebly obligations well enough and I’m out of angles. Have a great weekend all. :D
  20. auminer

    auminer Renaissance Redneck

    My physics equations are a tad rusty... but I'm curious what the G forces involved would be if someone tried to go from 82 MPH to zero in 0.9 seconds.

    I don't have a crayon handy, but eyeballing it and cipherin' in my head, I'm coming up with somewhere north of 4 Gs.

    I seem to recall reading that MotoGp bikes are capable of 1.8G braking. I'ma guess that OP wasn't on one.

    Even without adding in reaction time, it would be physiologically impossible for OP to have stopped before he passed the cop.

    Rock on, indeed.

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