Discussion in 'General' started by Robby-Bobby, Dec 4, 2018.
Lament? No. More like why bother and just kill the entire class.
To achieve true parity and stop all the whining yes indeed all the teams would have to run the same ECU just like they do in BSB. That's what I was referring to.
As long as everybody has a different "KIT ECU" package there's always going to be somebody bitching about parity. I'm sure you're aware not all kit ecu's are the same.
True. And I guess I don’t know what the best approach would be other then the end results needs to achieve a reduction in cost for everyone. How do you make racing less expense while also improving the level of competitiveness between teams is the question.
Would a reduction in cost even achieve this under the current motorcycle business environment. Not sure.
I'm just savoring this moment.
Whatever is going on I hope they get it figured out fast. IMSA is in a similar state, doing better than MA, but they are going their own way instead of adopting what the "euros" are doing. Mainly bucking the new Hypercar rules in favor of keeping their prototypes. Hope it works out for them.
Cameron Glickenhaus committed to the euro rules which is unfortunate because that means they will likely not be racing in IMSA which really really sucks. McLaren on the other is very interested in IMSA. So they must be doing something right.
The part about the WoO engine is only partly true. You can buy a 410 for much cheaper then $50k. The point is that the rules have allowed for the local drivers to race with the best. The rules in MotoAmerica seem to be built to keep local riders out. And that will only help keep fans and grids shrink.
do locals do well against the WoO full-timers? I havent watched in years. is there a large number of locals making it to the main?
for MA SBK, im not sure that locals matter all that much. im sure most clubs have a small handful of riders that could qualify. but its not like any of them will fight for the podium. beating any rider on the SBK grid straight up might even be a stretch because the talent level is so high. so locals will have little to no impact on the "show". MA needs full time entrants with talented riders and teams, not locals or wildcards.
MA has STK1000 for locals.
Yes locals do..
Just like at the race this past weekend, the indoor Nationals in St Louis. One of our local guys ran very good. Last year he sat on the pole at that race.
I wouldn't want to claim Welshan as a local....
I would count Bloomer before him.
Farrell ran pretty well at road America back in the day. Watching him and eslick side by side backing it in, in t5 was pretty cool
I don't want to hear any more bitching about MA TV coverage. Nobody has fewer options for watching MA than me. I have these choices local cable with about 15 channels. Dish TV where I can only get 1 satellite instead of 2 so I can get less than half of the channels, or whatever I can stream. I get BEIN sports the FUBO and I have been able to watch all of the MA races, Moto GP races and WSBK. It doesn't cost that much. If fans aren't watching, it is because they don't care and if it isn't spoon fed to them via one of the networks they are to lazy to figure it out. If any of any of you reading this aren't watching all of the races, you are either stupid, lazy, cheap or a combination of all of them. Stop your whining!!!
Its a sad situation for sure that a team had to fold up and leave the paddock, even more so when its because of others' actions, electronics, etc. Probably not the death knell of MA, but still sucks.
These things always seem to bring about long and passionate conversations about how to save American roadracing from lots of people who always seem to know lots more about it that whomever is in charge at the moment. Interestingly, the answer is always super easy and obvious as if the people in charge would have to be either stupid or purposely ignoring it to suit some unknown ends. Clearly, the best people in which to entrust the future of road racing in America are those who have an opinion.
Outlaw this, legalize that, change one rule and "poof!" TV contracts will appear, teams will be flush with sponsor cash, factory teams will return in droves, riders will be paid huge salaries, the racing will be awesome, etc etc etc.
Back in the day there was no TV coverage and the internet was the faintest glimmer in Al Gore's eye. To follow racing you had to either go to the track or read about it in one of the 3 monthly racing magazines (usually only available at your local bike shop). Interestingly, at the same time the paddock was filled with factory bikes piloted by well paid riders and worked on by well paid mechanics. Oh and the grids were filled to capacity. Plus the classes included everything from Harley 883s to 250GP bikes not to mention the 600s, 750s, and superduper bikes dripping with all manner of unobtainium. Nirvana, right?
Some people thought so, others, not so much.
Independent teams got tired of the factories influencing (more like writing) the rulebook and wanted more parity and fairplay. Many people foretold the end of racing if such things did not happen. Eventually, things changed to allow privateers to compete and the factories, fearful of their multimillion dollar teams being challenged on track by a guy showing up in a pickup truck, took their ball (and their money) and went home, never to return.
So what may be a good idea for one party may not be good to another. Everyone has a different reason for going "pro" racing and their priorities will likely conflict. It is therefore not a good idea to leave the rule-making up to the whims of competitors (people on the internet with opinions are obviously the best option).
But it sort of depends on the ultimate goal of the series. ie; factory involvement or anyone who shows up having a shot at winning? Unlimited superbikes or cost saving? The best team with the most resources able to hire the best people and build the fastest bikes always winning or complete parity so the local fast guy can strut his stuff on the national stage? And on and on and on.....
Whatever the rules, the people who want to field a team must decide if they want to race or not. Then they must design their program so that it makes sense to them (which bike, rider, class, goals, etc). If they can implement their plan within the existing rule structure they go racing if not they don't.
If more teams stay home than show up the people running the series will have to adapt or die.
With luck MA will adapt successfully and American roadracing will continue, much to the delight or consternation of people with opinions on the internet.
I am sorry, fact, common sense, and logic have no place here, you have to leave.
Standing on the outside of T1 at Mid-Ohio listening that, thinking, hmmm....
If anything MA made it cheaper to allow stock or kit ECU’s. The BSB spec ecu’s are t exactly cheap even with the options turned off. You still use most of the sensors for data and you still need to be very creative with your strategies programming the ecu. There’s not much savings there. It does add some parity but it also forces a lot of cost for all teams when a flashed ecu would do more than the motec does in BSB spec.
Not everyone will be happy, ever. Go to full spec ecu people will complain about cost, all kit ecu’s they will bitch about advantages. I do like the BSB spec ecu in 600ss, it definitely keeps racing closer but it’s not cheap at all.
When thinking about benefit of kit ecu bs spec ecu (note with most rider aids turned off) look at BSB stk 1000 vs sbk. They put the stockers on dot green rear because if not they be faster than superbikes.
Is that because the tracks are small? Or is it like here a couple years ago when an occasional SSTK would mix it up or win against a SBK?
It really isn’t even about if the locals can outrun the stars. It is the fact that the locals showing up to run with them brings spectators. The local drivers have family and friends that come out to see them race. That is why the Outlaws have the rules they do. They are inclusive so that the locals can join in. They need local drivers to fill out their grids. And yes, local drivers make the A feature all the time. Hell, I have seen them do it with a 360 ASCS engine. As teams leave MA and the grids continue to get smaller they are going to have to look at ways of allowing local riders to compete. That or their own elitism will be the death of MotoAmerica.
Interesting didn't know that was the case.
Can't say I "claim" him lol.
Bloomers is semi local. 45 mins away. Been to his shop many times to hang with him.
Separate names with a comma.