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Contractors- the Prince of Blackwater (Xe)

Discussion in 'The Dungeon' started by Steeltoe, Dec 4, 2009.

  1. Steeltoe

    Steeltoe What's my move?

  2. XFBO

    XFBO Well-Known Member

    So what's your take on the guy?
     
  3. Steeltoe

    Steeltoe What's my move?

    Tough to say. Can't say he's in it for the money since he was already wealthy. I don't care for his Christ complex though the article says he spent coin on building mosques. He is a vet with an honorable discharge from the most elite group. His folks get bad guys off the street. His head may be in the right place but he made a huge mistake getting in bed with the CIA.

    On contractors in general I'd much rather see my tax money go to our troops. Higher combat pay and better post-service care and benefits for their families. If our best troops leave to be hired guns who is left in our military to train new recruits? Why are our best trainers outside the military and not in it?
     
  4. jrsamples

    jrsamples Banned

    Excellent points. I believe he's a 100 percenter and that's why he'd crawl into bed with just about anyone who's willing to forward the goals and protection of this country. He had to see his hanging out to dry coming with the arrival of the great one and posse.

    His group was light, quick to respond and carried a very small roll of red tape. IMHO that's why he was helpful. I don't believe that our military should be in country long enough to need his services, though.

    Early on, though, they were not ready and Prince had some of the wrong people in position and that's why Helveston and the 3 others were killed. He ought to own up to that.

    http://www.thenation.com/doc/20060508/scahill/2

    http://www.historycommons.org/entity.jsp?entity=wesley_batalona_1

    http://hamptonroads.com/node/66371
     
  5. XFBO

    XFBO Well-Known Member

    I somewhat feel the same way about the money BUT just like in everything else our government puts their hands on, they're inefficient. Our military will not draw in the quality personnel that it actually helps build. Personally, I cant blame intelligence or military personnel leaving their government jobs for a company like Blackwater. I guess they can afford to pay ppl what they're worth partly due to them being a more efficiently run company.


    For the history buffs, were any other private contractor outfits in existence before Blackwater?
     
  6. Steeltoe

    Steeltoe What's my move?

    What's his 'Christ complex' I dont understand? Google. His own employees said that about him.

    And what do you mean 'getting in bed' with the CIA?
    In the article.:confused: Also on the news, on the web.
     
    SpeedyE likes this.
  7. XFBO

    XFBO Well-Known Member

    What's there to google, a lot of ppl have a God complex....hell, I get that feeling from you in half your posts in here, amongst a few others. :D

    Aside from dropping equipment to our military and providing dignitary security......why would it be considered 'being in bed' to you that his outfit has collaborated with the CIA?
     
  8. shogun

    shogun Well-Known Member

    I don't get the meaning of 'God complex'.....hell he's an ex-SEAL, rich, and has done well for himself. I'm sure he's not hurting for confidence. Being a SEAL would do that....

    CIA, has used/continues to use, groups like this for various ops, so that's nothing new (neither is a group like Blackwater/Xe). One of his problems was the company got so big (easy target, and hard to stay 'black').

    That being said most of this info should never have seen the light of day (as far as his work for the CIA)...IMO, certain idividuals should be hung for treason for 'leaking' much of the info (a la his example with Plame). He got caught up in the politics of the day, and the hate for Bush (with the exception of the killings in Iraq)
     
  9. XFBO

    XFBO Well-Known Member

    Exactly. Another example of do as we say not as we do. Plame made Bush & Co look bad so her outting lead to a headhunt, here we have another example of an outing and where's the outrage from the left? I thought so.

    The difference between those two cases, imho tho, is one was a former spy and the other was a current one. In BOTH cases, it's wrong and ppl who were involved in the leaks should be dealt with accordingly.
     
  10. Orvis

    Orvis Well-Known Member

    Unfortunately, there are some in Government that can't stomach what has to be done in a war situation so we actually need contractors like Blackwater to do those operations very quietly without everyone knowing about them.

    As far as the CIA is concerned, for the most part, they won't give the time of day to most Congressmen simply because of the danger of disclosure by that Congressman. We do have a hell of a lot of "loose lips" in Washington. In fact, I get more pissed off at those "speaking off the record" to reporters than I do at someone going a bit overboard in a combat situation.

    I'm also a firm believer in the notion that, when it comes to national security, a reporter has no law to hide behind in revealing sources of information.
     
  11. 26ssfreak

    26ssfreak Well-Known Member

    Executive Outcomes comes to mind i beleive they where out of South Africa did alot of work in Sierra Leone.
     
  12. nycstripes

    nycstripes Meatball's Dad

  13. GAMBLER

    GAMBLER Neard supporter


    Your tax dollahs... oh my.

    What percentage of the US population is serving in the military? Maybe 2%... out of those elite how many are serving OIFX or OEFX? The majority of Americans put the never forget sticker on the bumper & have called it a day.

    What do you have against some superb & maybe a few not so superb guys... who take off their uniform & put on a contractors cap, doing the same job, but getting paid enough for their trouble?

    I guess a couple thousand dudes making six figures a year... I guess that alone could push the deficit into the trillions & force us to beg from the Chinese... you're right we have to draw a line.

    Viva La Mercenaire! FTW!
     
  14. Rebel-762

    Rebel-762 Well-Known Member

    ?


    Blackwater had been on the ground for a while when the Fallujah 2004 incident happened. this is not so much with being prepared as it is the cost of war. Any small contingent traveling through Fallujah on that day would have met the same fate. The enemy was well positioned to pull off a fatal ambush and was looking for a target of opportunity. A roadblock led the team to take an alternate route through the city providing an easy target for the enemy forces to assault. Remember: target's of opportunity with the highest probability of success.

    It was a sad day and a terrible loss!
     
  15. Steeltoe

    Steeltoe What's my move?

    They really don't like the "m" word.

    Why not invest in our soldiers what the contractors are making? Why not put that money towards taking care of their families while they are away? Why not put that money into the V.A.? Or the G.I. Bill or a half dozen other things our men and women in uniform have said they need. How about a chunk going to post-combat care?

    What kind of aftercare or insurance do private contractors offer their employees in combat?
     
    SpeedyE likes this.
  16. jrsamples

    jrsamples Banned

    I disagree, not that it really matters now, but I don't believe that Helveston signed on to ferry kitchen equipment in an unarmored car with no dedicated rear gunner carrying only M4s with a team that he had not worked with while not having alternative route contingencies. If you believe the articles(did you read?), he saw that the mission was bullshit, wanted to quit, but was told he was on his own in this wild west town if he did.

    It is not a cost of war if it is a dumbass mission to begin with. It is a sacrifice of war. All IMHO as I was not there. My best friend was there at one time, I haven't been able to go visit his plot.
     
  17. CorollaDude

    CorollaDude Beach Bum

    :stupid:
     
  18. Rebel-762

    Rebel-762 Well-Known Member

    I am sorry for your loss!

    Greetings,

    I am sorry for your loss, I know the emotion of loosing those close to you in war and there is nothing I could say that would ease the anguish you must feel when reminded of him.

    As for being a private contractor in a war zone and thinking the mission is bullshit then don't do it! There is nothing that says you have to rush up the stairwell into a hail of gunfire as a private contractor if it makes no sense to do so. In the Military another story maybe :) Though there may have been harsh talk to keep Scott out on site doing the mission BW would never have just completely abandoned him in Iraq. Think of that PR nightmare!

    Scott and his team had an alternative they could have simply returned to base. However they were probably not aware of just how deadly the atmospherics were becoming within Fallujah. Everyone knows that running convoys down MSR's was a nightmare and the riskiest business one could be assigned to. It was a tragic and horrible day that will not soon be forgotten.
     
  19. XFBO

    XFBO Well-Known Member

    Good question.
     
  20. Steeltoe

    Steeltoe What's my move?

    These guys can't do anything right. At some point you have to wonder how much they got away with in the Wild West or Iraq?

    http://www.freep.com/article/201004...Ex-Blackwater-officials-indicted-in-arms-case

    "The indictment issued Friday charges Gary Jackson, who left the company last year in a management shakeup, with conspiracy to violate firearms laws, making false statements and possession of an unregistered firearm.
    Also indicted were former general counsel Andrew Howell; former executive vice president Bill Mathews; Ana Bundy, who at one point had oversight of the firm's armory, and Ronald Slezak, who was hired to oversee documents related to the company's status as a firearms dealer."
     
    SpeedyE likes this.

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