OK, OK...I have it! Lets index OUT everything but CB350's and create a Formula CB class and back it up with a Formula XS class for us fat asses.
Sorry but you being a fat ass isn't something I'll base a class on. All I care about is what the bikes can do. The riding end is up to you guys individually not me.
Serious question because I can't find the thread it was talked about in right after last season. Did the older Carbureted inline 600's get indexed in? I think it would've been V7? Specifically the earlier model carbureted GSXR 600's and R6's? It was asked awhile back and I have been looking for the answer and haven't seen anything, yet. It will help me decide whether or not to come on out finally.
No. There were way more changes than just FI - they're too fast for the class. They are stuck in limbo until I can magically create more time in the day for a V8 class.
FWIW - something to keep in mind when asking about newer stuff that isn't the exact same as stuff already allowed. When the class was created they weren't allowed in and there was a very good reason. Those reasons haven't changed in the relatively (compared to the lifespan of the other Vintage classes) short time the class has existed.
drgonzo, what kind of power can the bottom end handle on the xs and what are the bore sizes on the carbs? the down side to my 650 bonneville is the bottom ends don't handle high compression and high revs and the 30mm carbs can be like breathing through a straw. I'm all for adding bikes to 500gp. If your xs gets too fast i can always kick ya in the nuts before third call
Thanks for the reply Sean. It sounded like it might be a serious consideration from the others that were talking about it after last season. Good to know though, now I'll go and keep searching for an ESS machine! You made my decision easier, thanks!
No problem. I wish I'd noticed asking about the newer 600's sooner and answered you sooner. Some of the really odd stuff might get added but the main type of machine for the class is pretty much set right where it's at.
James, i looked at pics of a 1975 xs 650 w/12000 miles. It's in Mass. for $2000.00 it's a fuckin cherry. original, chrome looks great. A buddy called me 2 nights ago about it. I found him one last summer in like condition. He thanks me and smiles big every time he sees me. he loves those bikes
Thank you Lyn for the very kind comment. To all those that feel compelled to debate R5's and XS650's "indexed" into 500GP: Why bother with class names and period designations if all you ultimately do is performance index every bike ever made into classes? As it stands today, Honda 350's can race in nearly every WERA "Vintage" class named. If WERA "Vintage" is really to be only about performance indexing, just call them classes 1, 2, 3 or A, B, C, etc. I took a bit of a hiatus to race Baja, Pikes Peak, etc. I'll have the BSA B50's back out this year, along with a bona fide Gold Star 500 - i.e., real 500GP bikes. My principal goal is to have a place to race old bikes, and I appreciate Sean & Evelyn providing us a place to do so. But, we need not adulterate the classes such that everyone can race everything in something - that is AHRMA's approach and it is why you have 16 classes, many with only one entry, and such a scrum on the track that closing speeds and handling capabilities create truly dangerous situations. I will not participate at AHRMA's Barber event next year unless they change the dangerous situations they created all in order to put a few more $$'s in their coffers. It was negligent, bordering on gross negligence, and nearly criminal. I'm off the soap box. Looking forward to seeing all at the track this year. Cheers, Dave
I would say they can handle close to 70 hp but in stock form produce more like 41-43 at the rear wheel. Mine doesn't have high compression to handle. It is bone stock internally, has stock CV carburetors and an electronic ignition and gutted emgos. I don't know the bore size of my carbs. The factory calls them 38mm but I don't know where they measured. The bore is more in the 30-32mm range with a butterfly in it to boot. From: BUILDING A BETTER TWIN by Joe Minton Note: This article was originally published in Motorcyclist magazine in 1981 "Our first trip to the dyno was with the stock bike and with the Stage I components. The stock (1979 Special) engine performed about as expected, although it made more peak horsepower than anticipated. Power in the lower half of the power band was unimpressive. As the tach climbed from 5,000 toward 7,000 rpm, the XS began to wake up and run. Above 6,000 rpm, the torque began to drop off and the horsepower followed the downward trend. By 7,000 rpm the engine was really suffering and fell on its face at 7,500. The stocker reached a peak horsepower reading of 42 at 7,000 rpm." Note to self: Wear a cup.
The XS stroke was unchanged throughout its production. Only rod length varied. 1970-73 are long rod engines and 74 and on are short rods.
Hey, I thought I did pretty good answering from memory since I have never even owned one of them. I did work in a Yamaha dealership in 1981, though. I do think they would be a really fun race bike. Ken
Aermacchi/Harley-Davidson 350 BMW R50 Bridgestone 350cc twin* BSA A50, B50 Bultaco 250 Metralla Ducati 450 Honda 350 two- and four-cylinder Honda 400 four-cylinder Honda 450 two-cylinder, must use OEM CV carbs or replacements no larger than 28mm Kawasaki A1 250cc, A7 338cc twin* Moto Guzzi 500 Suzuki T250, X-6 and T305 twin* Triumph 500 Yamaha 250 (to RD250) These are the light wgt. bikes, some already 500gp legal in full on spec. others would need to be limited. Like RD250, 450 Hondas and 400 four, the 500 guzzi. BMW R75/5 BSA, all 650 and 750 two- or three-cylinder Ducati 750 round-case Sport or GT (no Desmos) Honda 750 four-cylinder Honda 500T two-cylinder Kawasaki 500 two-stroke Laverda SF750 (SFC must compete in Formula 750) Moto Guzzi 750 (V7 Sport must compete in Formula 750 or Sportsman 750) Norton, all 650/750 (except short stroke) Suzuki 500 two-stroke Triumph, all 650/750 two-valve head, two- or three-cylinder Yamaha RD series 350/400 air-cooled two-stroke Yamaha R5 these are the hvy wgt bikes. some already legal in V-2. Others would have to be limited mod or even prodution based only for the big bores. I dont see the XS650 Yam. on the list, but i used to be allowed. Call me nostalgic but, when I first went to spectate at Summit back in the mid seventies, there were alot of production machines being raced. Most of the classic vintage classes today are for full on race bikes, with a few exceptions that I commend your efforts for doing. Some very succesful like the CB350 in gp350/gp500. Taking a similar approach with other bikes is another way to help Vintage racing in WERA stay viable and allow it to continue a little longer. I understand a line has to be drawn were effort in this area becomes counter productive or unfeasable. Thank you Sean for giving this your attention and doing what you can for us. Sorry to open this can of worms but, I have had this in mind for a while and figured now was as good a time as any to mention it. This is probably tooo much to consider for 2012 anyway but, maybe for the 2013 season, if there is a 2013. With the economy and gas prices, who knows. Many thanks, Richard Lucas
I figured it was, the XS would be a good fit in V-2 in production trim. Maybe we get a chance this year to duke it out. Stock piped RD350 (and stock internally) vs limited mod XS650. Might have to add you to the "Great Summit Point Chili Dog Challenge" list.
I dont remember the riders name that rode for Keating Racing but, in 1995 he rode an RD250 to the V-1 title and an R5 to the V-2 and V-3 titles. Beating out Jesse Morris' Triumph Trident if I am not mistakin'. Also, when Sean Dwyer was still racing his R5 in V-2, no one on a CB350, not even Stan Lipert could stay in the same zip code with him. Now prepping and maintaining a bike built to that level, let alone having the rider skills to make it go fast, is why you dont see any. That is why I prefer to race lesser modded versions of RD's. That was the purpose of F-RD and F-CB. Its also why I am an advocate of perfomance indexing in production based or limited mod bikes into slower classes. Less cost and less time needed to maintain and keep race worthy. And anyone who wants to build a full on race bike that has unlimited funds and dyno time can still do that and completly decimate the field if they want.
