WorldSBK I Round 10 I Jerez, Spain | Sep. 24-26

I would imagine, if you look at the % that die out of total participants, that is no longer the case?

 

Yeah because those who love to stick their noses where it doesn't belong love to just let others "police themselves". That has been proven over and over.

Must be pretty in the world you live in.

What I've seen is give them a inch and they'll take yard regardless of what reality or logic is.

You know how to prevent motorcycle racing deaths? Stop racing motorcycles. I hope you and people like Mat Oxley will be happy with that outcome.

 

His logic is flawed. No amount of policing ourselves will do anything for this type of cancel culture mentality.

I'm all for making MC racing safer but giving into these knee jerk reactions of "something has to change" is the beginning of the end.

And there is zero evidence that "breaking up the packs" will lead to safer racing. You don't have to be in a pack to get run over. All it takes is one bike. It's a slippery slope of dumb shit rules that will do nothing to actually help safety besides making somebody feel better that they're "doing something".

 

We all live in the same world, which we share with the 99.9% of the population that doesn't understand motorcycle racing and doesn't like kids dying. The continuation of our debate is undoubtedly pointless, but I will say that if you feel the need to denigrate those you don't agree with, you have already lost.

 

I'm just trying to point out you are approaching this with logic and rationale but the people that you are going to be dealing with on this issue are anything but.

The minute you start giving concession to appease the mob, there will be no end of demands in sight.

 

It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that a rider falling in front of a pack of 10-15 riders is going to be more likely to get hit than one falling in front of spread out groups of 1 to 3 bikes. I don't have any evidence of this, but it should be common sense. The latter adds more visibility of the fallen rider, more room to maneuver around the fallen rider, more time for the rider to get off the racing line, and more time to get the yellow or red flags out. No guarantees of course, but saying it isn't any safer is sort of ridiculous.

I can tell you this, if three more kids die in world level motorcycle road racing next year, I would expect MotoGP and WSBK to be racing in a few less countries going forward or if they do race in those countries no one under age X will be participating. It also isn't all about the kids and their injuries. The environmentalists would love to add safety to their list of reasons to get rid of as much motorsports as possible. Throwing your hands up and saying "there isn't anything we can do about it" or "it isn't any worse that other sports" isn't going to buy you anything. Maybe Matt doesn't have the right answer, but not looking for any answers isn't the answer either.

 

His article inspired our conversation, and, I would imagine, some others. That's not a bad thing.

 

Yeah but stick ball ect. Is more popular, and motorcycles are perceived as more dangerous.

 

Look at kids in football and hockey, not until recent years has it even become popular to talk about.

 

I basically agreed with your first point of not that many WSBK->MotoGP success stories. However, Toprak hasn't been to MotoGP yet to prove his mettle. I assure you, if you ask the guys listed above, they would have all preffered to "win races and fight for championships, not average a podium per year for the rest of his career" at the MotoGP level.

I think Toprak is riding like one of the best we've ever seen. But, to say he's at another level of ability than Spies or Bayliss is absurd.

 

Regarding the safety in the smaller classes, I think it's equally as dangerous to say that something must be changed as it is to say that everything that can be changed has already been considered.

On that note, it's often been said that the best racing is the small bike classes, which is an opinion I do not share. The crutch of being able to use the draft to overcome one's inability for riding at the limit creates false parity. Those 15 bikes all swarming together are not at equal levels of talent, yet they exchange places regularly because of aerodynamic inefficiencies. Yes, the true cream will rise to the top, but it rewards intellect towards drafting ability/timing disproportionately to riding skill in my opinion.

Fabrizio and Oxley had similar points, in the dangerousness of swarming packs in the lower ranks, though Fabrizio was more pointed into the causes. He addressed both the grid size and the severity at which the racers are now passing each other. I'm not sure that cutting the grid down from 42 will stop the packs at the front, only the number of packs on the track at the same time. For the FIM to cut down on the aggressiveness of the riders would require some very difficult calls that would, by definition, make the racing action less exciting. In light of recent events, I think that's a conversation worth having for the FIM.

 

This.

And this a huge part why I don't care about the lower classes racing.

Everybody wanted "parity and close racing". They got it.

Unintended consequences and all that.

 

guess well see, i believe ronaldo land is supposed to be a kawi track

 

I agree wholeheartedly with this. There is no way to make racing 'safe' in the way that being a tennis competitor is 'safe', but I think we do need to ask ourselves whether or not our current form is the best version we can produce.

And I understand that people want to see close racing and that close racing brings more danger. But having 42 people on a 2.5mile circuit that's 30ft wide seems like a recipe that could often lead to disaster. I'm not saying I have a golden wand and "here's the answer", but I do think it's worthwhile to investigate the rules/layouts etc and see if we can improve.

Let's not forget, if we have the 'that's racing' approach, and kids continue to die at a gross rate in small classes, guess who won't allow little kids to race - parents. Ultimately it's the parents that start the children's careers up to the point they can make their down decisions. Much in the same way I'm sure lots of people look differently at letting their little kids play football now that CTE is such a known and prominent thing stemming directly from impact sports like American football.

 

i agree that all sports have deaths, I only wonder if the fact we are dealing with "motorsports" that are dangerous with kids going very fast could, hypothetically, make it easier to separate from other sports and then ban or heavily regulate.

 

Nope. I don’t need to waste my time looking up shit for your happy ass. I know what I read, and that’s that. And, I don’t need to prove anything, you do. LOL