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2023 Daytona 200

Discussion in 'General' started by grasshopper, Feb 14, 2023.

  1. Knarf Legna

    Knarf Legna I am not Gary Hoover

    Not buying it, they both give a performance advantage and both can be safety issues.
    Michael Hausknecht likes this.
  2. Gino230

    Gino230 Well-Known Member

    When we spoke with the Altus Crew Chief last year (we know him from the old days) he said that when his riders tested the 600 and de-tuned 750 back to back, they felt the 750 was way better because of the torque at lower RPM. I didn't look into the trap speeds for the SuperSport guys, but watching the bikes it seems like the 600 and 750 were able to take much tighter lines while maintaining the drive than the Ducati was. This combined with the torque of the 750 means they are going to get a jump coming out of the chicane and coming out of the barrel turn onto the banking, thus making it look like they just drive by the other guys.

    I know MA looks at all kinds of data when deciding how much balancing needs to be done. I'm not in that class, so I don't know when the last time they re-balanced is. I know Rocco Landers said something late last year about a re-balance late in the season that he felt leveled the playing field a bit more and he then won several races.
    MELK-MAN likes this.
  3. Gino230

    Gino230 Well-Known Member

    All of the Supersport bikes now have to run the control ECU, including the 600s. The map is pre-loaded and when they turn the bike on / plug in at tech, they can instantly see the firmware version and will know if you have changed it. The delay in the 750's getting into the class is that they originally were not equipped with fly by wire throttle so a kit had to be developed. I asked Altus about it last year and I think the kit was $15K. I posted about it here before, just can't remember the exact numbers now. Throttle butterflies limited to a certain opening probably.

    Like I said in a previous post somewhere, MotoAmerica looks at exit speeds, apex speeds, trap speeds, etc. when deciding how to balance the bikes. I don't know what their formula is or how often they rebalance.
    ToofPic likes this.
  4. Used2befast

    Used2befast Well-Known Member

    I don't get the 15 second penalty for "pit speed limits"

    I'm sure the riders were aware that this would be an issue.

    My question is why the rule would be needed? Was I sleeping during the previous 2 D200 races (or previous 20) and people were injured by racing bikes zooming down pit lane? More rules don't equal more viewership MotoA. It's a hot pit...with miles of room. If your gonna establish this rule at the D200 with all that Nascar room how do you handle all the other tracks?

    As far as i am concerened they (that being MotoA) just took away some of the history of this venue and excitement of the D200 with these rules and made it more confusing and frustrating.
  5. rafa

    rafa Well-Known Member

    All the new gen bikes have to run a spec ECU and are limited somehow.
    The maps (and I assume logs) are monitored throughout the weekend.

    As far as top speed for the racers. During the last 10 laps
    Herrin 180.6 mph (Ducati V2)
    Hayes 180.6 mph (Yamaha R6)
    Paasch 181.0 mph (Triump 765)
    Gillim 181.0 mph (GSXR 750)
    Petersen 181.4 mph (Yamaha R6)

    Looks balanced enough for me. Impressive that Herrin can run the same speeds with 10% less hp....smh
    Bummed out with the results, but it is what it is.
  6. rafa

    rafa Well-Known Member

    Are you really confused why they dont want motorcycles going 150mph down the pit lane while mechanics are standing there and other bikes are leaving the pits?
    I can think of any professional racing series without pitlane speed limit.
    The blame here is not on MA, it is on the riders speeding, Paasch said he tried to anticipate the pit lane limiter and thats what caused him to speed. The risk of speeding, for the gain he was going to get, even if he got it right, 100% not worth it.
    stk0308 and YamahaRick like this.
  7. Knarf Legna

    Knarf Legna I am not Gary Hoover

    For other classes than the 200 you get a $150 speeding ticket, that's it, even after a red flag when the hot pit has almost as many crew members in some classes as the 200.

    I think the speed limit is fine, just make the penalties uniform to reduce confusion for everyone. I don't like the rule change that allows work on the bike when refueling, IMO that's more dangerous than pit speed.
  8. Used2befast

    Used2befast Well-Known Member

    I am NOT confused and know what its like to have speeding bikes down a hot pit. While I've never raced the D200 I have competed in a 8 hour endurance race at a venue "like" Daytona (Texas World Speedway) and extreme caution is needed. I've been racer and pit crew.

    I will have to respectfully disagree. More control for the D200 will only create more drama. The sanctioning body for that 8 hour race didn't add a speed limit and if I remember correctly we had both world champions on our turf one weekend. (Kevin and Ben) Pretty sure that no one was injured because the bikes had no limits coming off a hot track.
  9. Knarf Legna

    Knarf Legna I am not Gary Hoover

    No disagreement on pit speed limit, just see an inconsistency in that time penalties for jump start are applied to grid position on a restart but time penalties for pit speed are added to the end of the race on a restart. Maybe there's a good reason for that but it's not obvious.
    Monsterdood likes this.
  10. Tristan

    Tristan Well-Known Member

    This means squat when you factor in the draft. If you watched the race there's no way you believe Hayes R6 was even close to the 750 and Duc in top speed.
  11. Tristan

    Tristan Well-Known Member

    Somehow even dipshits like me can manage to live thru endurance races with no speed limits. I really don't care if they want to limit it, but 37 fucking MPH???
  12. Trainwreck

    Trainwreck I could give a heck

    I still haven't found any reason why Blake Davis finished ahead of Paasch in the standings?

    Also, since MotoA determined that Herrin was at fault for RE54's crash... How would they have penalized him if the race wasn't red flagged?
  13. Used2befast

    Used2befast Well-Known Member

    Essentially he got no penalty...pretty ridiculous if you ask me.

    I'd protest the results if I was RE54. Dude took no responsibility for his shove of another competitor off the track and those kind of actions are what cause real injury to both rider and team.
    Last edited: Mar 13, 2023
  14. grasshopper

    grasshopper Well-Known Member

    These are 2 questions I would really like to know the answers to. Everything else is explained in the rule book. But those 2 questions / answers are hanging out there with no explanation.
    MELK-MAN and svracer22 like this.
  15. 2blueYam

    2blueYam Track Day Addict

    We will never know, but I believe the rules allow for a time penalty or a finishing position penalty. The decision on which penalty and how much probably include factors like how bad the incident was, prior behavior, etc. I would imagine that Herrin is now on a watch list as well, so he will need to be cleaner going forward unless he wants more and/or more severe penalties.
  16. Rising

    Rising Well-Known Member

    I'm curious why Richie didn't try and rejoin after the red flag. Maybe his bike was damaged more than it looked but it looked like it just needed a clip-on.
    KneeDragger_c69 likes this.
  17. r6fast

    r6fast Well-Known Member

    He wasn't able to ride it back to the pits so no way he could of gotten back out there
    Rising likes this.
  18. R1M370

    R1M370 Dr. P Ness

    Thanks to sponsors, teams, riders, and safety crews for putting this event together again, hope this part of road racing stays alive.
  19. CRA_Fizzer

    CRA_Fizzer Honking at putter!

    Right clip on was broken. Kinda hard to ride that way...
  20. Mongo

    Mongo Administrator

    On an 890 talking about a guy running a 750 four in a 600 class :D

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