Why do we let this happen?

First time posting to this section...

I'm so tired of the Israeli/Palestinian conflict. It's obvious they'll continue this tit for tat for as long as the world will let them. There will be no peace in the middle-east while the Israeli government continues to treat the Palestinians this way .

Why does the US allow this to continue? When will we have a president that will stand up to the political pressures? It's going to take a tough stand. Something that has never been done before. The US will have to put the ultimate financial and polictial pressure on Israel. Something as drastic as cutting all funding, cutting all military equipment, and labeling them as a terrorist state.....just as the US now treats the Palestinians.

heck...I dont know what made me write this.... Just tired of reading about little kids getting killed by our US made Apache helicopters and tanks. It just doesn't seem right.

 

American's tend to trivialize our role in Israels affairs but the rest of the world doesn't. I agree with you -- I don't understand our policy towards Israel. I was ready to pull the plug when they were caught spying on us. My politically savvy family elders tell me I can forget about us dropping Israel as they have too much money/power within our political system. I dunno.

 

Israel was spying on us? What were they looking for?? (no sarcasm intended)

 

Weapons secrets. How to make a neutron bomb. What goes into the armour of an M1A1 tank. What is the US policy towards Nigeria. . .

Almost anything.

As for peace in the middle east: Look at the reverse. There will be no peace as long as teenage "martyrs" are blowing themselves up on buses, in market place or any place they can claim a huge body count of none combatants.

Pointing the finger at Israel is just as foolish as pointing the finger at the Arabs for the blame in the middle east "conflict".

Joe, like your savy friends say, you can forget it. Short of the English, the Israelis are the US's tightest friend in the world. Sanctions or withdrawal of support for Israel is never gonna happen. Ever.

 

Please this is not a request to be flamed…. Things reported from this conflict and in this situation / circumstances are not what they seem on the surface. The Israeli’s do respond in an overbearing manner some times it is justified.

The tactics of the radical Palestinian’s/Arabs that attack Israel are deplorable. They position themselves among the poorest to insure civilian casualties. They solicit and brainwash teenagers as their human bombs with promise of compensation for their family’s (formerly paid by Saddam) and Glory when they meet Allah.

Considering the situation it very well could be that the Israeli helicopter fired a missile, if that is shown to be the case then I agree with you. On the other hand Radical groups in this conflict have shown NO reluctance to use an incident like this to grandstand for the world media and may have bombed the parade of their own people. They believe if it furthers their cause it is acceptable to kill innocent people no matter what nationality.

The truth (or the full truth) is rarely represented in initial news reports of such an incident.

 

I disagree on your first point. There will be no peace in the middle east as long as Israel is propt up by the west. Israel has been living in defiance of its own charter for 50 years yet they enjoy our full support. Iraq on the other hand went through 10 years of mixed compliance and was eventually attacked by the U.S. when the U.N. disagreed with military action. The difference may seem immense to American's but to the Arab world I think its seen as simple hypocrisy. The solution in my mind is to let Israel defend itself and its conquered territories completely hands off.

In the first 10 minutes I was working with the Saudi military the question came up about U.S. support for Israel. I was pretty oblivious to the implications of our policy until then.

On your second point I regretfully agree although I think its worth mentioning that the English dropped their support or Israel decades ago.

 

I agree with everyone. I never said the Palestinians were not at fault. I only suggested how to get this to stop. We can't do anything worse to the Palestinians that isn't already being done to them. But, we can do something to Israel to make them find a peaceful solution.

As of now, we continue to back Israel, they continue to pursue Palestinians militants killing innocent people, and the militants continue to blow themselves up killing innocent people. Something has to give and WE are the ones holding the cards.

Like I said, it will take a President that is willing to do what is necessary no matter what. Yeah, it will probably never happen because we'll never have a President that would do it.

 

"I'm so tired of the Israeli/Palestinian conflict."

It does seem to go on and on. If it's any consolation, though, the world has seen longer struggles. England and France had their "Hundred Years War". The Crusades actually lasted longer. Even the Irish "problems" have gone longer.

What happens in these long term conflicts is that, ultimately, entire careers become established in promoting the "cause". Then, bloody as it may be, we have factions that really have no interest in ever ending it. It becomes all they know how to do.

 

I don't disagree with you, but why should the U.S. get involved? At least with Iraq (and Afghanistan) we had somewhat of a reason. It's been debated ad nauseum, but at least Bush could claim it was reactionary due to 9/11 and the fact that Saddam wasn't complying with U.N. regulations, suspected of having WMD's, torture camps, and STD's for all we know, and it was almost universally looked down upon by the rest of the world. You can disagree with our involvement, but according to the sanctions and the alleged weapons Saddam allegedly has/had, at least we had a legitimate reason to be there.

If we decide to switch policy now and force the Israeli's (God's Chosen People) to work something out with the Palestinians the potential ramifications of that could be horrible. The U.N. countries don't seem too enamored with the U.S. as it is, the Palestinians aren't going to fall in love with us just because we stop backing Israel, God only knows how deep we are in it with the Israeli's anyway, and there are enough fanatics there that it seems unlikely that even if we did anything they could just work it out; they're ingrained literally from birth on that the other side is wrong and that it's their land. There's footage of three year olds (and I think that's the accurate age range) willing to take a gun and go kill Israeli's or Palestinians (which ever side they're NOT on). I hate to be an optimist, but unless some kumbaya movement strikes the Middle East, or somebody invades the whole area and takes charge ala. Charlemagne, it's never going to stop. They're too good at perpetuating the hatred for each other in their youth.

-Cheers

 

Joe, I'm curious what you mean by "hands off" - is that no political support, no financial support or something else? They've done a pretty good job of defending themselves to date IMHO.

 

US support for Israel

While understandable, your idea that the US should stop supporting Israel is a dangerous proposition, while it is not understood by much of the world, our support comes with a benefit.

Should it be perceived that Israel is on its own by those seeking to destroy the country the likelihood of a direct threat or attack from the Arab world on Israel is huge. This would result in a WIDE buffer zone created by multiple nuclear detonations in the attacking and surrounding Arab countries.

 

The US should be UNINVOLVED!

If we stay INVOLVED, then the crisis will never stop and the Arabs will continue to hold our INVOLVMENT over our heads.

 

We have no choice in the matter. As one of the major forces in establishing Israel as a country post-WWII, we have an obligation to assist the nation we created.

To do otherwise would be to show the world that we are capable of turning our backs on our friends and our children. Is that the image we want to portray?

 

True enough but they've also had the 800 lb gorilla to back them up. In their history they've had the U.S., and before us the British, to back them up. Perhaps "hands off" is a poor wording for my opinion but I think you caught the gist of it. Until their policies and actions fall in line with our countries ideals then I don't think they should enjoy our support. I understand their circumstances are different than ours but come on you occupy other folks land and oppress them and your gonna take some hits.

 

If Israel is our children, then we should spank its ass. When my kids fight I tell them to work it out or go to your room.

 

I think that'd be seen as making a statement against Israel, assuming you mean we just drop our support from them cold turkey. I would also argue that given their history (e.g. the Holocaust, the Genesis, etc.) the U.S. would be a bit resistant to pull out for fear of inciting claims of anti-semetism or of siding with the Palestinians by default (i.e. by not protecting the Israeli's). Additionally, the Jews share the basic Judeo-Xtian values as America, even though America's shifted from that by and large, and whether it's right or wrong I think Americans tend to lean towards siding with the Israeli's rather than the Palestinians.

Ideally though, I think it'd be great if we stayed as uninvolved as possible. The U.S. has long held itself as a Big Brother to the rest of the world, and a mediator between warring nations. I don't see us breaking tradition on this one.

What I meant by not becoming involved was by changing policy. Poor word choice perhaps, but by cutting all support to the Israeli's now, we'd be leveling the playing field which (call it a hunch) would make the Palestinians more likely to opt for all-out war. Again, this is just an opinion/gut-feeling, but either way, you're going to have innocents killed.

Sorry, but if I knew a good solution I'd be in politics. Or maybe Michael Moore.

-Cheers

 

...and by God we do have a choice. We are the United States of America. Bush said we will do whatever it takes for our security. A peacful middle-east would boost our security more than anything else in recent history.

If pulling our support for Israel makes peace, then what image would that portary? It's all about image... and right now supporting Isreal is hurting us more than it helps.

...and by the way, we are supporting the Israeli Government, NOT their people! Their people WANT change and peace. Those are the people we defended in WWII.

 

You (generally speaking) continue to put a polictical gain/loss on everything. Take out the politics and look at it. I know it's not going to happen, but a US president would have to look past the anti-semetism bull crap and do what's right.

Israel is more than capable of protecting itself.

Jeeezz.... now i know why i never posted to this area. Gets me all fired up for no reason. I think I'll go back to the general area and bash Mladin.

 

If it's any consolation, I like your avatar.

I think we're looking at it politically because politics are (arguably) what stand in the way of your plan (and face it, most good common-sense plans that get in the way of some administrator or politician's agenda) from happening. If we could somehow stop all of the Middle East violence and hatred from happening just by a majority concencus that it should stop it would have ended years ago. I think most of us are just venting, same as yourself.

-Cheers

 

Yes...you're right. I'm venting. I'm racing this weekend...that should help...

....it was a consolation, that you I like my avatar.