Universal Basic Income

Discussion in 'The Dungeon' started by ryoung57, Feb 13, 2019.

  1. ryoung57

    ryoung57 Off his meds

    Please don't take my starting of the thread as an endorsement. I know there's plenty of info out there about it, and I believe there's a recent or upcoming Rogan podcast about it, but I like discussing things in here.

    On one hand it seems like a good idea and will give a lot of people a little flexibility to take risks, get educated, open businesses, etc.

    On the other hand, it seems like a great way to increase inflation and further line the pockets of all the various entities that take advantage of poor people and their terrible spending habits (banks, healthcare, short term lenders, etc, etc, etc).

  2. 600 dbl are

    600 dbl are Shake Zoola the mic rula

    It takes effort to remain perpetually poor in this country.

    UBI is a SJW talking point to make people feel better, it's a complete load of bullshit.
    cav115, TurboBlew and crashman like this.
  3. auminer

    auminer Renaissance Redneck

    If only we had something somewhat similar to UBI already in place that we could study and determine how much it encourages people to lift themselves out of poverty vs wallow on the dole.

    Ohwait! Welfare! That oughta do it!
    tl1098 likes this.
  4. R Acree

    R Acree WTF

    Finland tried and failed.
  5. SPL170db

    SPL170db Trackday winner

    Equality of opportunity :beer:

    Equality of outcomes :rolleyes:o_O:mad:
    badmoon692008 likes this.
  6. ryoung57

    ryoung57 Off his meds

    Agreed, to a point. What kinds of things make people poor in this country?
  7. sheepofblue

    sheepofblue Well-Known Member

    Welfare by another name. When you pay people to do nothing they will do nothing. This encourages people who could contribute to fail. If we cut welfare (and nonsense like this) and enforced our borders there are plenty of Americans to do those jobs. Which would improve their neighborhoods and increase the chances their kids would be even more beneficial to society as a whole (and the people in question also)
    kangasj, speeddaddy and Spang308 like this.
  8. ryoung57

    ryoung57 Off his meds

    But isn't it for everyone, NOT just the unemployed?
  9. Spang308

    Spang308 Well-Known Member

    Laziness, drug addiction, alcoholism, poor decisions, lack of education/training, etc.
    It ain't capitalism. Capitalism provides opportunities. It's up to an individual to take advantage of them...or "capitalize" on them.
    People seek a level honestly. You can give a poor person a pile of cash and they'll be poor again in no time. Enter lottery winner stories by the thousands.
    cav115 likes this.
  10. brex

    brex Well-Known Member

    The government.
    sheepofblue, turner38 and speeddaddy like this.
  11. Spang308

    Spang308 Well-Known Member

    Good answer, good answer.
    Survey says?
  12. ryoung57

    ryoung57 Off his meds

    True on all accounts, but there are other factors. There are a lot of wealthy people out there who've made their wealth off of the backs of the stupid, ignorant, unlucky, or otherwise disadvantaged. I know I'll get dogpiled on here since most everyone on the forum is a "pulled themselves up by the bootstraps, self-made millionaire", but truth is the deck is stacked against a good portion of the lower class in a lot of ways, many of them un-quantifiable or not easy for people in our positions to understand.
  13. Spang308

    Spang308 Well-Known Member

    The opportunities are there. I will not argue cronie capitalism has enriched an elite connected select few beyond most people's wildest dreams. That said, even those white collar thieves are not the reason others can't, don't or won't succeed. Have some greedy people taken advantage of people for personal gain? Of course. Is it right? No. But there are WAY more instances of people taking a chance, building a company and employing people honestly. Does the company owner make more than their employees? In most cases yes. They are also the ones who came up with the idea, invested their time and money and likely more importantly, took the risk.
    You want to be mad at capitalism? Be mad at government handouts with the disguise of capitalism. Solyndra comes to mind.
  14. ryoung57

    ryoung57 Off his meds

    It's so much deeper than that.
  15. knutz

    knutz Well-Known Member

    You “assume” an awful lot about the various backgrounds of the people that post here.
  16. 600 dbl are

    600 dbl are Shake Zoola the mic rula

    While I cannot speak for anyone else, I am where am I because of the work/effort I put in.

    Could I work harder and make more money? Absolutely. The problem is I don't want to. The things I would have to sacrifice to make more money are not worth it to me. I am not rich by any means but I am not poor either.

    There's plenty of rags to riches stories. Oprah is one of them. Ben Carson another. If you are referring to the poor "black kid who can't make it out of the projects" it's still about choices. Those choices start with the parent(s) and later the kid. Again, I'm not responsible for those piss poor choices. There's more grants and scholarships offered to the poor. There's "diversity" laws that put the white middle class person at a disadvantage. The opportunity scales are tipped in favor of the poor, yet the poor still remain poor. I'm willing to bet if you polled 100 "ghetto" kids on what they want to be when they grow up you will get answers like rapper, athlete. Poll 100 middle class kids and you'll get doctor or vet or fireman. Why do you think that is?

    The emphasis on college is bullshit. The emphasis on the poor should be tech schools. Get the poor up and working. If they wish to pursue education afterwards they will have a better opportunity to do so.
    tl1098, J Bart, ducnut and 1 other person like this.
  17. Spang308

    Spang308 Well-Known Member

    Perfectly stated and mirrors me exactly. I've done OK. I live well. I have a bunch of friends with more money/assets than me. I have some with less. I have made a decision to be happy and happy to me is taking off weekends to enjoy myself instead of working.
    My family isn't rich by any means. Dad was a mechanic. Mom worked in a bank. Middle class all the way and I remain in that bracket. I have no doubts I could have made myself rich if I made that a priority. I like floating around with my girlfriend drinking beer on a boat instead.
    To each their own...
    We have the choice to be whatever we want. It's one of the nicest things about this country.
    Last edited: Feb 13, 2019
    Banditracer likes this.
  18. Fonda Dix

    Fonda Dix Well-Known Member

    I’m fine with it provided 100% of ALL other social programs are eliminated entirely
  19. ryoung57

    ryoung57 Off his meds

    Did I forget to use the sarcasm font?
  20. crashman

    crashman Getting slower every day

    I am more for giving the leeches less money. Welfare obviously pays too good already as there are a bunch of able bodied people who are living on welfare and not bothering to look for a job. UBI may help a few people achieve more than they would otherwise but what I know about basic human nature leads me to believe we will just have more people sucking on the tit and whining about how they are "disadvantaged".
    kangasj, tl1098 and Banditracer like this.

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