The Problem With Vintage Racing...

Well said!

 

cost and bracket racing

bracket racing is for gimps an wimps . an as far as cost just exactly what is a budget for a v-1 to v-5 class bike? an really are they that fast that they need an index.....

 

INDEX

I think people are not understanding the meaning of indexing in this case. Not like drag racing where time advantages are given to make the races close . IF not a run what ya brung class , then all classes are indexed.

 

Bracket Racing

See what I said to begin with guys... it was just an "idea" or concept that could be massaged to "possibly" work.
I am in no way offering "Bracket Racing" as an alternative to any thing.

Stan is 100% right in what he said about rider ability regardless of what he is riding, that is why on certain days with certain riders you get REALLY goof racing regardless of what they are riding.

For those of you that tuned in late that was just an exersise in mental gymnastics based on the nit picking that can go on about the various classes and rules that abound in vintage racing today and if there would be any better way(s) of making it more fair, more simple, or what ever.

Let's face it, we (vintage racing) are trying to put 10 pounds in a 5 pound sack with all the historic street and race bikes that have been produced in the last 50 years and trying to equlaize a common class structire that will be fair to all.

IMO it comes down to this... do you want to have fun racing and keep it cheep? Do want to remain as close the acutal historic configurations of what ever it is you want to race? Weeeellll as much as I'd like to make everyone happy, financially it is just about the same comparison as contemporary superstock bikes running in Superbike. Yes rider ability has a lot to do with it but is often hard to beat cubic dollars.

What was created many years ago as "vintage motorcycle racing" could be divided into several Groups: Classic or historic vintage race bikes with a sub division for street production bike of the period that were raced agqainst the real racers and raced in classes for themselves. This is the "pureist" group. Next would be be vinatge "Production" racing, bikes that are/were basically street bikes turned into racers with a few production line racers tossed in. Last but not least is what I'll call "non contemporary, but really not vintage yet" group. And then all you have to do is make a set of rules for each group and SURPRISE you have AHRMA, USCRA, WERA Vinage and the rest.... full circle.


Bob Stanley

 

Re: Bracket Racing

I appreciate your thoughts on this... has ayone looked at the CRMC in the U.K. regarding their rules on classic/post-classic?
Now, I'm starting to get antsy about this season, what with all
this kind of discussion going on, I'm in a muddle...do I need that $6,000 super-dooper motor built for my RD400, or can I just come out and go around, hoping to get a little faster with practice?
By the way, AHRMA does not allow every type of pure racing machine out there on the grid. As a (past) AHRMA member, I wrote and got no response about a proposal to allow the TZ500/750, RG500, etc., out on the track where people would love to see them again... I'd like to know, really, why we all do this vintage thing ?

 

I am here to testify that all the contributors of this string are on to a very important point. I had just brought my stocker CB350 to the track at Talladega, February 06, to get some CHEAP track time and to ease the wear and tear off the Norton 750. Halfway through the day, we exploded the motor on the Norton. But because I had just introduced a CB350 to Team Old & Oily, we had something to ride. We still have not repaired the motor yet, but we finished our most complete racing season to date. Now, all three members have there own CB350 stockers and at the end of the year we were racing each other and keeping the “bug” alive. This allowed and encouraged us to expand on the 350 stockers and add a V5 bike for Charlie (EX500) who took second place national in 500GP in his rookie year, and V4 bikes for Keith and I. We will be chasing Wayne on similar Seca 550s. If we had dropped the momentum do to expenses, we may have become statistics at our 3 year mark. I am just now beginning to ride competitively, but for the first couple of years it was just great to be out there with you guys. That’s what we need to promote AND this string is on the right track. I think that electronic ignitions and exhaust configurations should be unrestricted while brakes and carbs stay stock. The 350 GP restrictions for CB350s are a great model for dos and don’ts. With eBay parts bikes galore and low budget future racers available, we could keep this thing alive. Not really sure about bracket racing, but add more available bike to classes under the stocker concept is working now, in 350 GP. 10 years form now, I’d rather be on the track racing rather than chatting about where we went wrong.

 

Keep it cheap.

If it's cheap,more people will come join us.Fuel injected bikes are becoming incredibly expensive to race.Most people stay away because of expense.Also more current racers will stay racing vintage if it's cheap.If it's cheap,it's fun.Fees and tires.That's what 90% of us want anyway.Put that into motion.Just a thought.......



Race on Sunday,work on Monday

 

CRMC

Hi Charles
Our CRMC Post Classic and other Classes work realy good over here in the UK
you do not need a super dooper exspensive rocket to be competative in most classes just a good set up bike

regards
Terry

NEVER OUT BRAKED...........................

 

What I was intending to suggest was that we (over here in U.S.) take a look at your rules and see which ones would work for us...what I remember from racing over in England was that there were 'oversubscribed' races and some riders sat out because there was no room for them on the grid...your top riders in the U.K. spend money, too, to stay at the front. And that guy Lea Gourley is way way too fast, he should be banned!!!!

 

Keep it cheap and plentiful

You said it KJohnson..
Keep it cheap for that 90% and you guys in front can be #1, #2, and #3 of 25 rather than of 4 or 5 or 6.

 

I have evidense to the contrary

 

Could you please inform me on how you came to your conclusion on fuel injected bikes being expensive to run? how do you propose to make racing cheap? Why should people that are willing to spend money be penilized by cheapskates that dont run up front anyway

 

My set-up is cheap. Has been for years.

 

Vintage racing IS as cheap as it gets.

Mongo, you are right. There is no less expensive way to get on a race track. I enjoy the opportunity to rent my portion of the track when I am there.

Doesn't the idea of openning up the grids to "ride what you brought" make sense too? What about the idea of openning each class to comparable or less competitive bikes to bring in more newbie racers or existing racers running more races?

Either we are beating the same dead horse or there is something to consider here.

Thanks for your input.

 

not to be an azz, but why be diggin out a thread that, up until yesterday, hadn't had a post since jan. 2004?
btw, i have a whopping 287.13 in the xs650 i plan to run in 2007 (excluding the tires that will last ALL season.

 

Just keep it cheap,as compared to other classes,if possible.People are already heading our way (V6,V7) because it's not near as expensive as LWTSS,CSS/CSB, B,A and so on.Just keep it that way,if possible,that's all.It's only a suggestion,no more,no less.Either way will not hurt my feelings.

Spend all the money you want Aaron,no big deal.I wish I could (if I didn't collect Marshalls,maybe I would ).But start-up costs and "operating costs" for our classes in Vintage is way down compared to the others (modern bikes with fuel injection).What other class can you get a solid/kick-ass bike for under 4 grand? Vintage!I hope that clears up what I said earlier a wee bit better.

 

My bikes are fuel injected, I would rather have that than trying to dial in a 30 year old set of lectrons that cost $500 on ebay... , So what you are sugesting is that we have a superstock vintage class? i think that would be cool if one had the cash to have a SS an SB bike. Personnely I like the superbike rules in V7. There are some great looking old bikes out there, Dales gixxer 1100, melches 600, larrys yammie ow 750, and that monster 900rr that lives in south carolina. I also like the run what ya brung style of racing, it always leaves room to tinker an make your bike better. Sorry but I just get annoyed when people want to make motorsports cheaper, I deal with that on a daily basis on a much bigger scale. If I hear "We have to go faster, but not spend anymore money" one more time.......I might just lose it.

Happy holidays
Aaron

 

#1 advantage of racing Vintage is that unlike modern bikes, what you spend this year is good for next year. We don't have to upgrade bikes every 2 years to chase contingency money. Most of the people winning classes have been doing it the longest and spent moderate money over a period of years. I started on my 86 gsxr limited 750 and rode it for 2 years. When I wanted to be more competitive I built a 7/11 from the ground up and it took at least a year. I still have far less in both these bikes than I would drop on a new 1000. Sure I've wrecked some good stuff and blown up a couple of motors but it's all along the R & D curve.
Eboz
Happy Holiday you Boozers