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So, wait....Hate crime laws don't work?

Discussion in 'The Dungeon' started by L8 Braker, Mar 20, 2017.

  1. R Acree

    R Acree Banned

    Please accept my apology.
     
  2. XFBO

    XFBO Well-Known Member

    "Premeditated murder", what's that? I'm not an attorney either but in NJ premeditation is a requirement to charging an individual with 'murder'....period. If premeditation can't be met, then manslaughter it is.

    Kinda just skimming over the thread, not sure what the debate is in here but I THINK the consensus is we don't need more new 'feel good' laws to stack on top of criminal charges already on the books.

    I think we had a similar discussion way back when I agreed that certain sectors of employment (police/fire/corrections/probation/ems/teachers/etc...) should have added penalties, I still stand by that. Some professions deal with skells of society much more frequently than regular folks, those skells need to know stiffer consequences will be a reality if they don't behave. Some of you FTP'ers probably won't like hearing that but oh well......IIRC, NYC Corrections was one of the first correctional institutions to have implemented stiffer penalties for AH's who like throwing their urine/shit/amongst other bodily fluids at the CO's.........well, those violations came to a drastically lower number after they implemented stiffer penalties and additional [stiffer] charges for those actions against correctional staff.
     
  3. beac83

    beac83 "My safeword is bananna"

    I'm not sure there was a debate.

    I think ALL "enhancement" penalties, including the ones you defended, are bogus. Assault is assault. Battery is battery. Murder is murder.
    One doesn't count more than any other because of their classification, job or whatever. None of us are all that special.
     
    R1Racer99 likes this.
  4. XFBO

    XFBO Well-Known Member

    That's real easy to say when you're not the one filling the position 99.9% of the country don't want nor want to pay big bucks filling.
     
  5. beac83

    beac83 "My safeword is bananna"

    It's also easy to support these enhancements if you are a member of a group so protected.

    Doesn't make it a good policy.
     
  6. Orvis

    Orvis Well-Known Member

    Punishment for a crime is a confusing issue. The act of punishing someone when they commit a crime is, in itself, trying to control their thoughts. In other words, we don't want someone to continue to think they can get away with criminal actions. Making it a crime to hate someone that causes one to commit a crime against them goes a bit far but it's understandable I suppose. Since motive has always been a consideration when committing a felony against another person I guess adding the motive of hate is logical.
     
  7. mtcam77

    mtcam77 Well-Known Member

    Afraid I'll have to disagree. While motive has always been a factor in establishing guilt (if possible: motive, means, opportunity) it's never been a consideration in the actual conviction until the inception of hate crimes. A individual has always been punished for acting on the motive, nothing more
     
  8. Mongo

    Mongo Administrator

    Doesn't matter to me - the crime is still the crime.
     
    beac83 likes this.
  9. cav115

    cav115 Well-Known Member


    Not now; get with it.

    Clearly Trumps fault now!:D
     
  10. In Your Corner

    In Your Corner Dungeonesque Crab AI Version

  11. R1Racer99

    R1Racer99 Well-Known Member

    You probably won't like hearing that my life is worth the same as yours, but oh well.....

    The idea that a cop's life is more important than someone else's is just as insane as someone getting more time because they "hated" someone. This system is fucked.
     
    Last edited: Apr 13, 2017
  12. R1Racer99

    R1Racer99 Well-Known Member

    Don't do it then.
     
  13. Fonda Dix

    Fonda Dix Well-Known Member


    I respect what you do but it aint special. Its not worth big bucks. Never has been and never will be.
     
    Last edited: Apr 13, 2017
  14. XFBO

    XFBO Well-Known Member

    What a special crew in here, to get all riled up over stiffer laws/penalties that proved to protect Corrections Officers from getting bodily fluids thrown at them. I mean that is a legit problem the rest of society has had for quite some time huh? :rolleyes:......some of you will incessantly bitch....... just to bitch. It has nothing to do with being special, crime patterns are studied and every so often actions are taken in an attempt to stop them. It just so happens that what was happening to CO's in NYC had become a regular problem......"so don't take the job!!!" How mature of you!....I think that's going on right now in Brazil, be careful what you wish for.
     
  15. Funkm05

    Funkm05 Dork

    I would argue it has less to do with the value of the person's life than it does with putting a higher value on protecting the position/role. While some people give zero shits about the laws, in general, there are likely a larger percentage that will consider the extra sting of attacking a cop just b/c they're a cop. If there's no extra sting, then there's no extra incentive not to. The President's "life" isn't more important than someone else's, either. The role, however ... carries way harsh penalties just to even make a threat. How often do you really see it being done?
     
    XFBO likes this.
  16. Fonda Dix

    Fonda Dix Well-Known Member

    According to Indeed, the average per hour pay for a US Special Operations solder is $14.24. The same site lists the average pay for US law enforcement as $28.97 per hour.

    I find that interesting.
     
  17. R Acree

    R Acree Banned

    Do those "pay" figures include all compensation?
     
    Last edited: Apr 13, 2017
  18. Fonda Dix

    Fonda Dix Well-Known Member

    It just said average hourly pay so I am not sure. I will look again.
     
  19. blkduc

    blkduc no time for jibba jabba

    Define "big bucks". law enforcement and teaching are two of the most important roles in society that are currently far undervalued. Those roles should be filled with high performing people who are well compensated.
     
    XFBO likes this.
  20. In Your Corner

    In Your Corner Dungeonesque Crab AI Version

    My property tax bill says that teachers get paid enough, especially for the product they turn out.
     

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