Rain Tires

Discussion in 'Tech' started by xTomKx, Sep 10, 2018.

  1. sbk1198

    sbk1198 Well-Known Member

    That is a big IF! lol I get your point and I agree with it, I'm just saying for most of us, it'd be a waste of time and electricity because we'd lose all that heat. WSBK guys are likely faster in the wet than I would be in the dry, so yeah you're probably right that they can get them around 120 F. I know I can't get mine to that. When I've come in the pits after a wet race/session, took my glove off and put my hand on the tires they felt about the same as ambient temp, just slightly above ground temp. The only time I've used warmers on rains (and on low setting) was when I was under a big garage and I could keep my bike and warmers dry...and that was during a track day actually. I don't like to get them soaking wet so if there's no roof of some sort over the bike, I don't put them on. Certainly not hurting anything by using warmers on rains, so long as you watch the pressures and make sure they're where they need to be.
  2. fastfreddie

    fastfreddie Well-Known Member

    Consider that WSBK, et al, prolly have team members whose sole job is tires and their management...not to mention that there gear - pressure gauges, IR, durometers, etc. - is likely calibrated within points of a percentage. We're talking professional racing with big bucks on the line.

    I think Mike nailed it...and/but if you know your gear is accurate, know how to utilize it and keep records to manage its use, you have the info to make your own decisions. That's a lot to do for a club-level rider, as if they didn't have enough to deal with single-handedly.
    sbk1198 likes this.
  3. Pneumatico Delle Vittorie

    Pneumatico Delle Vittorie Retired "Tire" Guy

    I don't remember actual in use rain tire temps. But I'm going to hang with some Pirelli racing peeps from Milan in a couple weeks so I'll find out and report back.
    Last edited: Sep 14, 2018
    MELK-MAN likes this.
  4. DBConz

    DBConz Registered Idiot

    i've never used warmers on rains. they get hot enough on the track from riding. i'm chasing puddles to keep them cool.

    MELK-MAN Michelin.. Bitches..

    I've been at this since 2003. I've done a lot of rain racing in my day, and when i actually bothered with rain racing, i won a LOT of rain races. why wouldn't you want the tires as warm as you say they are getting on track "from riding".. right away? and you do understand you only need to chase puddles when there is a dry line forming, or the track is wet, but drying. What you are saying, is nearly the same as saying "i don't need to use warmers on my slick race tires, they will get warm enough on track"

    Yes folks.. i get it's one more thing to worry about. that many riders will warm em too hot and potentially blister the rains. That some won't go fast enough to get em warm enough to really work. BUT, if you are smart, dillegent with procedures, have quality multi temp warmers , there is no reason you shouldn't be running warmers on rains. My opinion.. i totally get why Mike and others will suggest to customers not to do it.

    PS: in the michelin tire catalogue , it discusses using warmers on the rains.
    › Maximum grip thanks to its new rubber and new rear tread.
    › A deeply-grooved tread for maximum water evacuation
    at high speed.
    › Temperature versatility.
    › If tyre warmers are used, it is essential not to exceed 60°C.

    again.. do you have to use warmers on rains? no. Will it benefit you to do so ? probably...
    Last edited: Sep 14, 2018
    sbk1198 likes this.
  6. Pneumatico Delle Vittorie

    Pneumatico Delle Vittorie Retired "Tire" Guy

    Only since 2003, what a rookie
    Anyway 60c is 140f so not that much above the suggested warmer setting for the big P rains of 122f.
    And FYI I have never seen a set of Pirelli rains blister/chunk from being only on warmers
    MELK-MAN likes this.

    MELK-MAN Michelin.. Bitches..

    And totally agree...
  8. mike-guy

    mike-guy Well-Known Member

    Just don't think that although they were never used that 5 year old rains are ok. I bought some and it ended badly. After when I went to buy more I felt how soft a new rain tire is and realized mine was dried out badly.
  9. metricdevilmoto

    metricdevilmoto Just forking around

    Proper storage is very important with all race spec tires, especially with rains.
  10. fastfreddie

    fastfreddie Well-Known Member

    I used my decade old rains at the dragstrip...no slip AND keeps the competition wondering. :D
  11. Pneumatico Delle Vittorie

    Pneumatico Delle Vittorie Retired "Tire" Guy

    All tires need to be stored in a cool dark place. And I've seen 2 year old Pirelli DOTs win a AMA pro race and 3 year old rains used at Miller WSBK.
  12. Pneumatico Delle Vittorie

    Pneumatico Delle Vittorie Retired "Tire" Guy

    You should have seen the looks we got at Bonneville when we used rain rears and set records doin so!
    MELK-MAN likes this.
  13. Wheel Bearing

    Wheel Bearing Professional low sider

    Food for thought after reading this thread...

    Iffy day, gets rain halfway through race day. Do you already have warmers on your rains? Set and ready to go? For the average club racer...fuck no. We were praying the weather didn't actually come and we wouldn't need to swap the wheels...

    Situation 2: Whole weekend is complete shit, so warmers were on. How much heat is kept in those tires after you go out and take the warm up lap with tires that are getting cooled from riding several miles of track before the race start?

    Would be really interesting to get tire temp differences from tires on warmers and get the temps after they got to their grid spot, and how much, if any, warmer it is than a tire that just went out without a warmer.
    badmoon692008 likes this.
  14. MELK-MAN

    MELK-MAN Michelin.. Bitches..

    ANY heat, is better than NO heat... ;) And like a dry race warm up. don't fuck about.
    Does the average budget minded club racer NEED to put rains on warmers? no .. but why the heck not ! It's another too available to them. if you can't afford a spare set of wheels, can you really afford to put your bike out there in the rain, where it's much more likely to fall down? Even if you do have to swap to rains, we are talking about 15 min or so of warmer time. That should be doable for all but that initial race, where a dry race was red flagged, and you only have a short period of time to grid back up.. but if it's wet the rest of the day, use warmers. Or don't. I don't care.. i'm trying to pass on info, on a process used by many racers, in many series. especially across the pond, where they race in the rain, A LOT.
  15. mike-guy

    mike-guy Well-Known Member

    I regret not bothering with warmers last time I was on rains. It was last year in Oct at Grattan. So if I remember it was low 60's and raining basically all day. I was able to run up front with the few experts that showed, some being properly fast guys, but the bike was slipping and sliding coming out of every corner. First time at Grattan in the rain and people said the patches were slick which they were but I had problems everywhere. Like a dummy I kept pushing and ended up on my ass. Of course I crashed because I wouldn't ratchet back on the gas but the tires just wouldn't work. Probably my favorite races have been in the rain when everyone is battling but when things aren't working right its miserable. Moral is next time I'm running warmers.
    MELK-MAN likes this.
  16. Pneumatico Delle Vittorie

    Pneumatico Delle Vittorie Retired "Tire" Guy

    Rain riding has so many variables to deal with it stresses you out, but you just need to go out on the track quickly and start the warm up lap with a good pace. Worrying about how much temp has left your tires as you grid up will only help you NOT focus on what you need to do. You need to be confident with your rain set up and that you set the tires with right psi and then go race.

    Rain conditions and racing in cold weather are similar and you have no control of these outside forces no matter what you do. Go out and find your comfortable pace (follow someone if needed) and be smooth. Soon your lap times will drop and you'll totally forget the BS from 10 minutes ago. And don't forget to have a helmet rain visor set up ready to go. I used a yellow no brow vent shield with Rain X.
  17. Pneumatico Delle Vittorie

    Pneumatico Delle Vittorie Retired "Tire" Guy

    And that is a great way to describe it.
  18. stangmx13

    stangmx13 Well-Known Member

    if the tires didnt improve after 1-2 laps, why do u think the problems were heat-related?
    Wheel Bearing and badmoon692008 like this.
  19. mike-guy

    mike-guy Well-Known Member

    After morning practice, which I was pushing almost just as hard in, the tires were barely warm. I realize they cool down fast but that seemed excessive. So in an effort to put more heat in them I turned the dial to 11. Genius!
  20. Spitz

    Spitz Well-Known Member

    No different than trying the big triple for the first time. There is no in between, if ya dont' send it you're gunna get hurt! :D

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