Public Employee Unions in WI and the Holocaust

Sad isn't it that someone who's only skill set it to throw a baseball, dunk a basketball or catch a football makes more than the people responsible for educating children.

 

Noted this morning on a talk radio show:
One of the Teacher Union reps was contacted by a concerned citizen by phone at home. The union reps wife answered the phone and was told that all calls should be made to Union HQ.

The protesters though have targeted all the legislatures homes to include the Gov's home and have been picketing outside their residences. Spurred to do this by Union Bosses. Double standard.

 

The alternative to all of this though too was layoffs for public employees.

They are faced with the same dilemna that Mercury Marine, Harley Davidson and Kohler company, all in WI, had to face in the last year. Either take cuts or be out of business.

 

Collective falls apart on the downside.

 

What exactly does their "salary comfort index" mean? The Utah average salary is only a few thousand away from the Utah median individual salary, yet their index level is a 39? Meaning what?

 

Read your own link that is starting pay not average. Add in that after a bit you get tenure aka only axe murders get fired and WAY above average benefits it is not as bad. Also there is usually competition for teaching jobs so supply exceeds demand in most cases. Finally as Mongo pointed out that is not a full year job. So if a teacher is a mother she has daycare expenses for less. Or a teacher can work at parks in the summer for extra $$ (common among teachers when I was in school)

Not really when you make a more accurate comparison. Most people that have a skill in sports get paid zero and many actually pay (hmm how many here have a net loss to race, and I am not talking slow people like me). There is an extremely tiny minority that do get paid very well for a short period of time.

Now contrast that with teachers where almost 100% make a living regardless of how worthless they are. In addition those that work at it can move up into higher salaries in administration and university/college work.

So while the top is lower the bottom is extremely higher.

Also consider that I once dated an award winning junior high teacher that did not know the distance formula (was amazed that I could do ETA) and thought nuclear reactions required water (all plants are built by it) oh and remember she dated me I am pretty much amazed at how little the teachers I have met know. I was discussing elections with one once (again a top tier in her district one) that thought Senators were elected every four years, and was getting ready to teach the topic come Monday

 

She made 22k last year. I just did our taxes. Thats half of te year when she was at a private school, and sep-dec at a public school. She is a first year public school teacher. She will make around 26 this year, if I recall correctly. I do not have a copy of her contract in front of me.

I realize I'm not going to convince you guys that's it's unfair to balance a budget soley by slashing wages and benefits of middle class people alone.
My wife doesnt want another job. She considers it a calling. She goes in early, leaves late, and has spent our own money in order to have current learning aids, etc. in her classroom. She doesn't mail it in. She would probably do it for 15k a year, and that's the problem. She loves her job and believes elementary education is what she was born to do.

And for the record, she is at work today, not sick, and hasn't used a day of sick leave since she's been a teacher.

Look - you guys have your opinion, I have mine. This may be the evil, wasteful, lazy teacher's union to you guys, but it affects real people in a way I personally feel is unfair.

 

It sucks that just a few weeks ago, the state of Wisconsin was happy and celebrating a Super Bowl victory and now we have a line drawn, with people lining up on each side with very emotional and personal issues that are driving friends against friends.


WI Senate is now in session and it sounds like the British House of Commons with all the yelling and screaming in the background. Democratic lawmakers are boycotting any vote and the entire teachers union is asking for a complete state-wide walk out of teachers.

It's getting ugly.

 

From what I am hearing coming out of the capital, the response is exponentially overblown compared to what is being asked.

Union leaders and their followers are blocking doors of the Capital and "assaulting" some staffers by pushing them away from the senate floor. Staffers are being held up in the Capital and are telling reporters through social media that they are starting to fear for their safety as it seems to be escalating out of control.

Again, I know its personal and emotional for the unions, but does this response really equal what is being asked? Or is this a situation where the media has been showing protests around the world and the people in Madison think if they get complete chaos, they'll get their way?

 

I think with the Capital packed to the point they are saying, its now a fire hazard and the protesters should be moved outside. Of course that will be considered a "police state" by the protesters, but they seem to be forcing that hand. Again, no problem with voicing your opinion, but this is getting stupid.

 

Found a good assessment of the situation from a state employee:

"[T]here are a significant number of conservative full time state employees in Wisconsin that support Scott Walker, but our voices are not heard and certainly not covered in the press. Many of us are afraid to get too public for fear of personal attacks at work and at home. Besides, it would not be reported or covered by the insanely liberal press in Madison, WI anyway. The only voice we have in Madison is Vicki McKenna on the AM radio, a conservative talk show host of some fame in the Madison area. We are jokingly calling ourselves The 5th Column like the counter insurgents on the “V” TV show. The unions are scared to death they will lose their gravy train, you are forced to join the union upon state employment as a condition of employment, what is more tyrannical than that? So, now, the workers would be able to CHOOSE to join the union or not, and many will leave it. The rest will have to cut an actual check to the union each month, instead of having it garnished from their check, and the union knows people will get tired of that. THAT is what this is really about.

Our benefit package in WI is almost 2nd to none in the US for state workers, this is a minor sacrifice when all is said and done. Under our former Democratic Governor, we had to take a 3% paycut the last two years in the form of mandatory furloughs. Walker intends to stop that, so we could regain that money, couple that with union dues we get back for quitting the union and it’s nearly a wash on the slight increase in pension and health care costs. That proves this is not about those changes, but about a political agenda by the left and the unions being threatened."

 

With all the protests in WI, isn't it about time for Obama to tell the Govenor to leave office now?

 

I read it is a full year, but split before summer at a private school, and after summer at a public one.

There are a lot of bad teachers, and tenure reform is likely a good way to weed out some bad ones. It would also likely weed out some good ones too.
In my experience, public school teachers are anything but overpaid. The one I live with makes $54k/yr (after 11 years), logs 12 hour+ days everyday, and works with kids one or two weekend days every month. She spends out of pocket on the order of $1k-1500 a year to supplement materials and activities. She teaches at a Title 1 school, where the students come from low income families. These kids already have two strikes at 4th grade of ever becoming productive members of society, and it's my wife pretty much more than anyone that is the coach of last resort trying to teach them how to hit the ball. It is way more difficult a job than I think most of you believe it to be.

I am reminded of the discussion here about a year ago about physician salaries, and how the vast majority support the typically high (>$250k/yr, often wayyyyyyyy more -- see radiologists or anesthesiologists, for instance). I have a number of friends that I have known for over thirty years (high school mates) that are Doctors. They work hard too, but I doubt they would trade jobs while retaining wages.

 

Speaking of walkouts...

Dems missing from Wis. Capitol ahead of union vote

The police have been called to round them up.

 

Mongo I wasn't lying, that is 9 months of teaching. Yes, 6 of them are from a private school, but her take home is roughly the same (I am not the banker/bookeeper in my home.) I thought that number was accurate enough for the purposes of our discussion here. I used it because it was fresh in my
mind from just having done the taxes. I didn't intend to mislead anyone, i apologize if it is coming across that way.

I really really dont want to argue with anyone anymore. I'm just flat out tired of fighting.

All I'm trying to do here is show you guys that there is a human connection here, it's not just a big evil union. I respect your guys' opinion and even agree with some of your points.

 

I'm fairly certain that it's average starting pay as I stated. I doubt every teacher in WI starts at exactly the same pay unless they have varying costs of living figured in some other way.