Much better... Speaking of practice, separating the experts and novices in LW this year was ten times better than last year. We were all combined last year and it was almost a waste of time. The practices were much more useful this year! My only complaint was we (LW folks) were promised a longer session later in the day when we got a red flag on the third lap in the second session on Thursday. It never happened, which hurts when there are only 4 sessions! Anyway, thanks Mongo, for splitting them up! Lee Fields LEEnSV #884 Ex Intrepid Racing
Dunno about not getting the longer session - Chuck is usually within a second or so of evening out all the groups timewise so if you got shorted so did everyone. The problem at VIR that the short sessions would have been no more than 3-4 laps tops and that seemed to be too short so we went with one longer one. The problem is the cool down lap portion waiting to clear the track to send out the next group eats a bunch of time ofer 5-6 groups. Anytime it's possible we will deifnitely do what we can to get you 2 short rounds over one long one, that part is already SOP.
I like the AHRMA standard operating procedures; 3 morning practice sessions 7-9 laps each They consider it a safety issue not to get in 3 practice sessions before starting the races. I had almost forgotten about all the wrecks and red flags in practice until I attended the cycle jam this weekend :-( However, I had a great time and hope to try another endurance race soon!
Okay, time for more input - how many groups Does AHRMA run and what's the split? Same for CCS, how many groups and what split between each one?
I disagree. Long practices are the best. Leave some tools (and a crew member if you have one) on the pit lane to make adjustments. Then head back out while your head and tires are still warmed up. The time wasted getting everyone on and off the track added to the one or two laps it takes most people to get up to speed equals less real practice time. I guess if you have four bikes short practices are better. But I don't have four bikes.
CCS runs 2 groups each morning. And at Roebling, time permitting, they would run an open practice after the GT races.
I still need to know how they break it down - for example, we do 600 Novice, 750 Novice, 600 Expert, 750+ Expert, LW Novice & Expert (which as the LW classes grow will be split more and more often), and on Saturdays Vintage as well. I'm at a minimum of 6 groups Saturday and 5 Sunday soon to be 7 & 6 respectively. Just kind of hoping there's a better split out there we haven't thought of.
CCS is totally different than WERA. They combine all lightweight machines(ex and am), then odd # am, even # am, odd # ex, then even # ex. The even and odd practices are supposed to be for middleweight and up machines but some 250's and SV's do slip through if they're fast enough.
wera does it right.....ccs lumps everything together, all even # am lw,mdw,hvyw.twins,open etc. then all odd# lw,mdw,hvyw....then on to the expert even/odd all machines practice together .....(me thinks) as far as the on off the track staging, it's our responsibility to hear the 1st,2nd 3rd call for your practice session and be at pit out to go......wera does it right!! 2 practice sessions is good!
Hey Mongo, AHRMA runs between 3-5 practice groups depending on the turn out. Usually it's 4 practice groups; group 1 - oldest & slower vintage group 2 - medium speed vintage group 3 - fastest vintage group 4 - all modern singles, twins, and triples Sorry for the poor descriptions but I think you get the idea of the practice groups. Yes, there is a huge speed difference between say a Yamaha SRX600 and a Aprilia Mille in group 4 but everyone gives some room because it's just practice. This usually works just fine IMO because most AHRMA racers are probably 15-20 years older than the average WERA racer (old guys hate to fall worse than young guys). Plus there's no Suzuki money on the line and no one expects to get noticed for the next factory ride racing AHRMA. Believe me I'm not knocking any of the racing organizations. I just notice a difference in typical track behavior between the average CCS/WERA sprint rider and the average AHRMA rider. I completely understand why the differences exist. I really enjoyed the Endurance race at VIR. The passing and room given during the race was very similar to what I've come to expect racing with the old guys (me included ;-) ). Most riders seemed to know that to do well in an endurance event, first you must finish. FYI, I typically get twice as many miles during a normal AHRMA race weekend versus CCS/WERA due less crashes and red flags. Yes, this is based on entering the same number of sprints with each organization.
I didnt mean to get anything started but now that we are discussing the issue here goes. I was displeased to see that Sat and Sun only had one round of practice. I was not able to attend Thurs but I heard that the LW bikes got cut short, anyway to say the less I was expecting 2 sessions since the Endurance was overwith and would not have a 30 minute session. If it was not for the sighting laps I would have gone out to my grid with just the warmup lap for practice I had a mechanical problem Sat that ended practice for me on the first lap The first thing was not to run the race but when I saw that I was next to last on the grid I did. this got me thinking that I was probably not the only one that has been in this situation...I adapted but it sucked. I think it would be wise if we could squeeze in 2 sessions if at all possible. I am not an organizer nor do I think I know what all is involved but I am a racer and I do like to progress.
What happend Saturday was that while the Endurance was done with we had so many Novices on 600's that we had to split that one up making for 7 groups. As it was with the oil we still wound up running a half hour later than scheduled thanks to the corner workers being agreeable to us working them to death. We did go back to 6 groups Sunday and I'm not totally sure why two groups wasn't attmepted (odds are good that it was just being gunshy after the problems the day before even getting one round in). Normally I get obnoxious and tell them to run 2 rounds no matter how short but didn't this time, maybe I should have, maybe not. Wait a minute here - no complaints form the didn't show til Saturday crowd - we offered plenty of practice time had you bothered to attend I'm only half joking the more I think about it - that is part of why the CJ is longer than normal because this many people and classes gets tight, it's an event like the GNF that you need to plan for ahead of time if you want to be on an equal footing with the other riders, if you show later in the week then you will of course be behind the 8 ball with regards to everyone else, it's just the way big events work, ask JU and the Thursday practice at the AMA events proponents. I have to say that we really can't be held to task because you weren't there while we had track time available for you, that part of it is your choice. Of course we all know for next year to show up on Thursday and pre enter don't we?
