Post-COVID Fifth Wheel Toyhauler prices?

Yea. Another trailer thread.

I bought a new toyhauler back in 2012. 22' Forest River Stealth with no slides. For ~8 years, it was perfect for just me heading out to the track. Fast forward, and I've got a toddler, and the trailer is being used for a lot more family stuff and camping. It was pretty much 98% for track use, and now that's gone down to about 60%. We need something bigger.

At the time, the MSRP on the trailer was somewhere around $35k. I got it for $22.5k OTD with add-ons included (trailer hitch, weight distribution hardware, brake controller, etc).

We went this weekend to look at a few fifth wheel toyhaulers. We're specifically looking for one with a garage and ~35' - 40'. Tandem axle only, and I don't want anything over 40'. Prices for the few that we looked at are ~$80k - $103k. Based on what I've read on the 'net, dealers are still making deals on higher-priced units; the sub-$50k trailers are the ones flying off the lots and apparently don't have as much wiggle room off of MSRP right now. The dealer I spoke with said I can expect ~5% off of MSRP, but, ya know, he's the sales dude. He said they would do 10%-12% off pre-COVID. I haven't been in the market in nearly a decade, but even 12% seems incredibly low compared to what margins used to look like. I remember folks citing 25% - 30% off of MSRP was pretty standard.

I've also been thinking about waiting until the summer is over, and I suspect the RV market will look interesting once the newbies realize that winterization and storage sucks. But, I don't know if that will impact the units I am looking at.

• Has anyone recently bought a fifth wheel toyhauler and can share their experience?
• What's considered a 'good deal' these days?
• I am willing to travel. Anyone have a dealer they'd recommend within a large radius of Southern California?
• Can any insiders share their point-of-view on whether or not I can save appreciably more by waiting until the winter?

And let's stick to just talking about the pricing. I already did the math and know what my 1993 regular cab Toyota Tacoma can handle.

 

The tacoma didnt come out until '95.

 

Well, the version that you know about. Mine's the pre-production '93 version with the 7.4l diesel . They ended up going a different direction in '95 and made the truck smaller.

 

RV dealers are raking it in right now, and are turning over inventory at an incredible rate. It doesn't surprise me that they aren't willing to discount as much as they were historically.

Thor Industries now has $14 BILLION in backlog.........up from $10B at the beginning of the year. Most of that customer retail orders, not units that will hit dealer lots for sale....

It's almost as insane as housing....

 

That's consistent with what I've heard, but I also heard that it's mostly on lower-priced units. Empirically, I did notice that the dealer I went to had a fairly generous inventory of fifth wheel toyhaulers, and they didn't have nearly as many traditional budget bumper pull units.

 

Sell now, buy in a few months.

 

I have a friend who hauls RV's. The party is all but about over.

There was a parts shortage so that's put production behind but as far as sales I'd give it a fem months and things will get back into reality.

The markup on RV's is insane.

 

I haven't been to an RV show/dealer in a while but last I remember, there's some pretty slimeball financing tactics too, like making loans for 7.99% for 20 years. Most people would barely pay off the interest before that shit falls apart.

 

I think you just have to decide what is a good deal for you. I'll try not to tiptoe too close to the dungeon line, but the monetary supply is up about 100% and that is going to have an impact on the price and availability of things. Pay what you are comfortable paying (or the cheapest price you can find) and enjoy your new camper. I'm not sure there is any way to figure out this market and I suspect there is no crash coming in the near future. IMHO, YMMV, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH

 

I don’t see that as slimy, since they qualify as a 2nd home loan, that’s the only way to get payments down.

I’m much more bugged my auto leasing, as it has allowed the manufacturers to really crank up car prices but still sell a payment. I’m the old, uneducated, by my car type, so these constantly higher prices really stink.

 

What's funny is that a Google search for 'fifth wheel toy hauler otd' brings up this thread from 2015 as the 3rd search result: http://forums.13x.com/index.php?threads/new-toy-hauler-cost.327892/

@TurboBlew mentioned ~20% - 25% off of MSRP. I found another thread from a different forum from 2013 with similar numbers. I can't find anything much more recent, and nothing from 2020 or 2021.

20% - 25% is a lot of money when we're talking about an MSRP at $100k. My budget is ~$80k - $90k. Based on that, I'm trying to determine what MSRP price range I should be looking at. I want to have a general idea of what type of markup people are seeing on units like this in 2021.

 

That's the same shit here, except the RVers got a head start.

Also, it's not like a second home though, because RVs/toyhaulers don't appreciate, which is the only reason long mortgages work out in the end.

Have you seen the amortization schedule of those kinda rates for 20 years? If you started a $50k loan today @ 7.99%, you wouldn't even have the first 10k paid off until almost 2029. At 50% residual, you'd be at at least $15k upside down... But hey, just roll it into the next bank loan.

 

It seems that a private party sale on a slightly used unit would be the way to go....Secure financing through your bank, and go shopping on FB or RV trader.

Somewhat off topic, but i bought by '05 Winnebago Aspect 26 (27k miles, 1 owner,) for $22k last Nov. Bank valued it at almost $30k....And now, you won't find this same RV with these miles, for less than $38k.

Some used gems are out there if you stay away from dealers.

 

Paying cash, so have flexibility there. I'm open to a used unit, but it would be tough to find something I'd be comfortable with. Where I live (Southern California), toyhaulers typically get thrashed in the desert and see a fair amount of off-roading. Mine is rare in that it has seen very little dirt and has almost exclusively been used at a paved paddock or campsite. Even with my crazy level of OCD to keep it clean, it still has a few dings (a couple of fellow racers may or may not have contributed by somehow contacting it with a mini bike). Keeping an eye out, though! We're not in a rush, but I also don't want to spend a year waiting for the unicorn to pop-up. Mainly trying to gauge the available wiggle room on MSRP so I know what to look for budget-wise.

 

You thought stock prices were up? Wait a year if you don’t “need” a new one

 

For all intents and purpose, the Pandemic is on the downward side of the hill and falling....maybe slower than most of us would like, but still falling. That means that lot of people are returning to regular work, and having less and less time to enjoy their new camper. They would likely feel safer flying to their destinations and staying in a hotel (vs. camping) and when wintertime comes, those same folks will soon realize that they are going to continue to make payments for something that is just sitting somewhere out of service, winterized, and doing them no good, not to mention the continued insurance on it, and the depreciation that is accruing each and every month. The glamor of "freedom" and camping will be wearing off and some, maybe many will be thinking ..."why in hell did we every buy this thing". I'd say that by this time next year, the market will be somewhat back to normal....and maybe even sooner if gas/fuel prices continue to climb like they have this year so far. If you can wait it out, my opinion is that you would be in much better shape a year from now to buy about anything you want that is in your budget....new...used...big...small..whatever.

 

Last time I had any reference was ~early 2018 when my Dad wanted a 5th wheel but ended up with a bumper pull type. Deck sheet said $57,000... think he paid $43ish with tax. Bought it in FL at a show but picked it up in PA. To be honest I wasted my time looking for him as he asked for advice & help but ignored it all. Later I found a receipt he left at my house where he paid $400 for GAP insurance. He told me he wanted to pay cash for a rig. Blew my mind how MSRPs are so fictional.

 

Best RV in Turlock is the biggest RV place ive ever seen. Dont know about pricing. Drove by a few weeks ago and their inventory is probably in half.

 

Yep, pre Pandemic, if you couldn't get 30 to 35% off of the MSRP, you simply walked away and found the same trailer at a different dealership that was willing to take your offer. It will likely return to that at some point in time.....and maybe even more than the ~30+ percentage numbers. The glut of used trailers out there in a year or two will certainly affect new pricing, but the scary part of buying a used trailer then will become......What all is wrong with this used trailer. There are already a lot of folks that know nothing about the trailers they have just bought....simple repair stuff all the way to stuff that pretty much only a dealer can work on (removing a slide room, hydraulic levelling systems, etc.) So then it will be a crap shoot about how the trailer was maintained/repaired...or if it was maintained/repaired properly. Having a good working knowledge of RV systems will become very helpful to keep from buying a POS/Lemon and the headaches that will certainly go along with it.

 

I'm normally a stand-up guy, straight shooter, fair/balanced negotiator, but some things require a mercenary attitude cuz "fuck you" money...

If you wave cash, they're gonna wanna rob you. If you play poor, they'll wanna rape you. Fight back. Play dumb-trying-to-be-smart by looking for the lowest monthly payment to go with that low sale figure you'll negotiate. Then stick it to 'em. It's not like you're gonna have a meaningful relationship with them after you and your purchase leave the lot.
Let the dealership think they're gonna use their financing at the highest rate for the longest term so they're more amenable to your negotiations for the lowest sale price...and don't say a word about having the cash.
Make sure, before any papers are signed, that there is no penalty for early payment. Don't ask about it, take the contract home and read it. If it's a go, then finish the deal. When that first payment is due, ask the finance institute what the payoff is and send that amount.
The dealership is gonna push to conclude the deal the moment they hand you the contract, etc. Don't do it! Take it home, you need "time" to let it all sink in...or so you'll say. They may want a deposit, make sure it's refundable or they have products in their parts and accessories department towards which you can throw that "money on account" for products you may actually want. If there's no penalty for early payment, it's okay to make a downpayment when signing the deal. Negotiate the downpayment into the deal at a lower amount than what they want just to let them think they're doing right for themselves by wanting to rape you long and hard.
That's an example of how one uses fuck you money.
Have fun!