Post-COVID Fifth Wheel Toyhauler prices?

I said I'd update this thread once I finalized a deal, so here it is! This is relevant for anyone in the market for a toyhauler in a heavily COVID-impacted market.

This is what I bought: https://forestriverinc.com/rvs/travel-trailers-and-fifth-wheels/sandstorm/326GSLR/4904

MSRP was $90,872.
Sale price was $70,300 (~22.5% off of MSRP).
OTD in California was $77,505 (~15% off of MSRP).

In no particular order - and I'm going to be very transparent - here are some things I learned:

• Dealers are all over the board on what they're willing to discount. There's zero continuity. Some dealers wouldn't budge off of MSRP. I found a handful that advertised a good price. Some were legit, and some had 'hidden fees' (the big one being a ~$5k freight charge since the unit was hauled in from Indiana). The dealer I ended up going with listed a pretty fair sale price, and then they negotiated deeper from there. They happened to have exactly what I was looking for and were local, so it was a fortunate confluence of events.
• Inventory is extremely unpredictable. I was originally waiting for a unit that was on order with Forest River to come in around January or February. My original inquiry was about a month ago. I found out today that Forest River pushed the build dates to July 2022 at the earliest. Manufacturers are calling a lot of audibles due to continued inventory / parts / materials shortages. This was the big reason I pulled the trigger on a unit today. I have a ton of trips (and racing) planned for 2022, and I didn't want to be caught out waiting for builds.
• My buddies consistently encouraged me to look out of state, but that was a huge pain in the butt and didn't yield anything better than what I could find locally. Someone with better sleuthing skills might have more luck; I used Google and RV Trader to find what I could.
• I knew more about the units than almost every sales person I talked to, and it's comical how much they contradict themselves and each other (Brand X has superior construction to Brand Y. You should totally buy Brand Y over Brand X for this reason). For context, I talked to around a dozen salespeople and visited 8-10 different dealers.
• The big dealers (multiple locations, huge lots) were the least willing to move on price. The smaller (and family-owned) dealers were the best and easiest to work with.
• On the unit I bought, I offered to pay full cash, and I also had them pull financing rates. The OTD price was the same in either case. To quote the dealer: "Cash or finance makes no difference; we get a check from either you or the bank". You may have different results if you're dealing with a dealer that does in-house financing of some sort. I'm not educated enough on the topic to know. I got financing quotes through multiple banks through Lending Tree and also through the dealer's financing program. Interest rates for 10 years ranged between 4.8% to 5.1% if financing half the purchase price and with a credit score of 820+.
• Used units pretty much weren't an option. They were priced almost as high as a new unit, and it was extremely difficult to find a unit that was in good condition that checked all of my boxes. When you're spending this much money on such a superfluous item, it's just not easy to make compromises.

If you have some other specific questions or want some clarification on anything, then let me know! I researched and shopped around for the better part of a year. Based on the trend I was seeing as I researched more and continued to wait, the worse it was getting.

I'm picking it up next week and have plenty of trips planned, so I might post up an update on the build quality and warranty issues. I was really happy to go with a Forest River product again since my existing unit has been so awesome, and I'm optimistic that this one will be the same. Time will tell!

 

Impressive sales figure for sure, seems you managed to get a RV at the non-astronomical COVID pricing. Well done! That's a nice floorplan as well.

Only thing I'd strongly recommend to add is two things:

1) Trail Air hitch. The one on my old 5th wheel was amazing and seriously aside from feeling the obvious weight pulling/stopping, I didn't know I was towing a trailer. Just cruising 70mph down the road and truck rode absolutely beautiful. Crazy to see the air bag soaking up all the bumps that otherwise would have been transferred to the truck when you watched it in the rear view mirror.

2) In wheel TPMS sensor kit. The good ones will be in the $4-500 range, but a blow out on one of these can do CRAZY damage. That slide out is right over your drivers side wheels and with the refridge and shit on the slide out, I promise there's a lot of wiring and shit that will get shredded if you get a blow out on the drivers side. If you can have a in cab system to alert you to a low tire before blow out, that's priceless.

 

impressive water & holding tank sizes. I like the floor plan.
Congrats on the purchase.

 

I have to say that to customers all the time. "Give me the cash price" or "I'm a cash buyer." Yeah, we only take cash. It doesn't matter if it comes from you or a bank. Actually, it all comes from the bank.

I second the suggestion on TPMS. I had my own horror story that led me to installing a system. I think the most important part is to have temperature monitoring. If the temperature starts to go up, you know you have something going on.

 

They probably wouldn't do it on a "on the lot" RV, but I'd seriously negotiate upgraded tires. The Chinesium tires that come stock are junk. 10 ply at 80 psi won't cut it. 14 ply at 110 psi is what you want. My next RV will have 16.5 inch wheels so I can get quality rubber. Just sayin' cause I've spent more on tire issues then all other things combined.

 

Thanks for the advice on the TPMS, @Wheel Bearing and @SteveThompson.

I don't currently have it on my existing travel trailer toyhauler, but the 5th wheel is significantly larger, and @Wheel Bearing makes a great point about the driver's side placement of the slide and refrigerator. Look like there are several well-reviewed options in the $350 - $400 price range, so I'll pick those up ASAP.

Knock on wood: I've not had a single issue with tires after almost 10 years towing my current unit. They're always covered and checked regularly. I did pick up a huge piece of metal debris in a truck tire while towing recently; thank God for full-sized spares so that my trip didn't get ruined.

On the topic of my old unit: I'll get to see what the private market looks like shortly. I'm going to post it up after the holidays. I'll probably update this post since it's still relevant to the topic of buying / selling a toyhauler right now.

 

^ This

 

It's the nature of the beast for all of those bigger 5th wheels....but that model toy hauler has limited carrying capacity. You can carry over 1,000lbs of fresh water alone. Race bike or not, fair to estimate 500lbs a bike, including spare wheels, parts, etc.

Two race bikes takes remaining carrying capacity to under 2,000lbs - add in the weight of full propane tanks, fuel cans, and all the shit you're gonna fill those cabinets with, and you're basically running those tires at the max all the time. Jack is right about looking to upgrade those tires to buy you some buffer on carrying capacity.

Here's a link to one of the in tire TPMS systems:

https://mrtrailer.com/tuson-tire.htm

 

Alright, another update on this thread. I said I'd report back on what it was like selling a trailer private party these days.

For some context, my previous trailer was a 2013 Forest River Stealth SK2112. I bought it for $22.5k OTD back in 2012, and that included a weight distribution hitch, and an electronic brake controller (installed).

I posted it up on Facebook Marketplace and Craigslist. Craigslist yielded virtually nothing. I got 2 E-Mails from dudes that obviously weren't serious about it. Facebook Marketplace generated about 50 inquiries in less than 48 hours. 85%+ of those inquiries were about the dimensions and whether or not it would fit a side-by-side / UTV. I knew those things were popular, but I didn't know they were THAT popular. I do live in Southern California, and there are a ton of places to ride those things. But man, I was expecting more interest from some people with dirt bikes / quads! I sold the trailer within 72 hours for $14.5k (which was $2k less than I listed it for, and $500 less than my target price of $15k). I'm very happy with the sale price and how easy it was to sell, though.

Taking the new 5th wheel out to the track this weekend, and then taking the wife out to camp in it the following weekend. I may update this thread with some info on build quality. The general consensus is that anything built from 2020 and beyond has had significant quality control issues and compromises due to labor shortages, rushing units out, swapping parts and materials due to inventory issues, etc. I'm very pleased with everything on mine after just visual inspections, but we'll see how it does after ~500 miles of towing in the next 2 weeks and actually being used.

 

As promised, I'm updating the thread with some info on the build quality. I'm just going to copy / paste from a Word document that I have where I am tracking all of this, so you can make your own inferences from that. I'll say that there hasn't been anything major, yet, and I'm pretty happy overall. We've taken it out quite a bit in the last 2 months already. Camping in it this weekend, and then 2 consecutive weekends at the track planned for the end of this month.


Fixed

Water heater – doesn’t work on electric, leaks from relief valve when hot, initiates with a loud noise
• The water heater works on gas, but it does not work on electric. I do hear the unit make a single ‘click’ when I turn it to electric via the control panel. But, the water never gets hot unless I am on gas. Possible that heating element burned out. Repair completed on February 18th. Issue was a faulty breaker. Breaker was replaced at breaker box.

Loose valance over rear window on driver’s side
• The valance assembly and the trim are both slightly loose. Needs to be tightened. Repair completed on February 18th.

Loose weather seal on right-side of slide where the refrigerator is
• The rubber weather seal is coming off of the track. I noticed that a power wire routes under this seal and prevents it from being fully secured at the bottom. My main concern is the seal and/or wire getting caught on something during operation of the slide, so I’d like to have this tidied up if possible. Repair completed on February 18th.

Long vertical trim piece on living area slide is too long and bows out from the bottom
• The bowing gets better or worse depending on expansion with temperature and humidity. I think it just needs a small amount trimmed from the bottom to remedy. Repair completed on February 18th.

Primary awning disconnected where the end cap connects to the roller
• I was recently retracting the awning back into the closed position. The awning had about 1/3 left to go before being fully closed when the end cap suddenly disconnected from the roller. It was the left end cap towards the rear of the unit. The roller fell against the trailer and was held up by the awning fabric. The hydraulic arms shot away from the trailer. I found a single small self-tapping screw on the ground; I don’t know if the end cap was being held on by more. I managed to push the arm back into position, reattach the roller into the end cap, insert the screw that I found on the ground, and duct tape it all together for transit back home. I need the end cap and roller securely reattached, and I am curious if there is a way to secure the arms in case this ever happened again while in-transit. I don’t know if the hydraulic arms, motor, or roller assembly incurred any damage when it all fell apart. I haven’t tried to use the awning since getting it secured again for transit. Repair completed on February 18th. Roller cap was reattached with new screws and repositioned since previous holes were stripped.


Pending

Water leaking down drain pipe – seems to be grey water
• There is a very slow leak under the trailer. The water is coming down the drain pipe and then dripping onto the ground. I suspect that it is a grey water leak for 2 reasons: the leak only started after I had taken a shower and started filling the grey tank, and the water does smell a little soapy. I cannot see where the exact leak is originating from due to the underbelly panels being in the way. I suspect that the drain pipe is cross-threaded or loose where it connects to the grey water tank. Was supposed to be repaired on February 18th. Unit exhibiting exact same issue and going back to dealer on March 11th.

Generator fuel level is not accurate – always shows ‘full’
• When I purchased the unit, the external fuel gauge showed completely full. I ran the generator for 5.7 hours, and the generator ran out of fuel. The gauge still shows that the tank is completely full. The fuel tank currently has ~ 4 gallons in it. I’ve heard that some folks noticed that the sending and ground wires were reversed during assembly. Dealer determined that the display panel is defective. Wiring and sending unit are OK. Dealer ordered a new panel on February 18th and will notify me when it is available.

Roller assembly in center of living room slide fell out
• I found the roller beneath the trailer on February 26th. The roller that fell out had adhesive on it. The 2 rollers that are still in place at each end of the slide are both screwed into the frame of the trailer. I contacted Forest River directly and was advised that the roller should be installed in the center of the access panel and should be screwed down. I will repair on my own.


Monitor

Water heater –leaks from relief valve when hot, initiates with a loud noise
• When the water is hot, the relief valve lightly drips. I suspected a possible air bubble in the heater and went through the procedure to remedy that (water pump off, hot water faucet in open position, and then open relief valve manually). This didn’t solve the drip. I will note that the water gets extremely hot. I suppose it’s possible that the thermostat isn’t adjusted correctly, and the excessively hot water is triggering the relief valve. Dealer looked at this on February 18th and noted that the air gap needed to be restored. Unit seems to exhibit this issue every time I move it and needs the air gap manually restored each time. This does alleviate the issue each time I do this, but I think it’s a little odd that the process needs to be every time the trailer is moved. Dealer noted that the water heater is unique in that it is positioned much higher than the rest of the plumbing in the trailer; this could be manifesting some odd behavior and may be unavoidable. Will monitor and may reach out to Forest River directly for some advice.
• When I turn the water heater on via gas, the unit starts up with a loud ‘boom’ as if it’s igniting a large volume of gas at once. Dealer looked at this on February 18th and noted that the issue was tied to the breaker that was also the reason the heater wouldn’t work on electric. Dealer said the inconsistent spark was allowing gas to build up and was causing the noise. The ‘boom’ doesn’t sound as bad now and is somewhat intermittent. Will continue to monitor and may bring up to the dealer again.

Driver’s side latch on compartment door for generator doesn’t latch
• The latch locking arm is too short and does not engage the edge of the generator compartment. Needs a longer lock arm. Discovered that this issue is intermittent and seems to depend on how level the trailer is. The door won’t latch ~90% of the time, though. Will monitor, but may request that a longer latch arm be installed.

Very small crease has formed on the exterior driver’s side wall towards front of unit
• There is a slight protruding crease in the fiberglass wall that has formed that appears to be the result of something pushing outwards from the inside. I am not necessarily concerned about this or need it to be repaired, but I’d like some reassurance that whatever’s causing this isn’t going to get worse. I don’t think it’s water, but I’m not sure what the source of the protrusion is. Dealer looked at this on February 18th and noted that the small crease appears to just be aesthetic and not indicative of a larger problem or one that should be concerned about long-term. That area can get some pressure from the pin, and there may have been some slight flexing when the unit was first put into commission. The issue has been noted with Forest River, and I will monitor to make sure it doesn’t get worse.

 

Jeebus H Chrimeny.....I counted 11 issues that you listed....I would not be 'overall' happy.
But i guess you expected some issues with all things RV/TH/etc...

My '05 Winnebago Aspect has had 0 issues in a 1 1/2 yrs. and i'm only in for $22k.

Stories like this will make me never buy a camper over $25k.

I hear a lot of people say to buy a unit that is a few years old...by then all the problems have been fixed. Makes sense in a roundaboutway.

 

All minor things, and nothing that's prohibited me from using the trailer, yet. I might change my mind if I continue to have issues and/or something more significant happens.

 

Eh, I'd consider them minor things as well. Although I have accepted the mantra that "Every RV is built like shit" a long time ago. I did have a small list of dumb things to do on my Work n Play when I got it a couple years ago. Bathroom door latch had to be adjusted because it'd pop open during driving, replace the water pump (a pump should last more than 2 seasons, I would think...?)

I think it's the acceptance that it's literally a house on wheels, and just like your own house, there's always something half wrong/broken that needs attention.

 

I've replaced 2 water pumps in the 8 years of ownership. I diagnosed the problem as the pressure cutout switch is a plastic piece of crap. It's a little plunger on a spring that operates through a diaphragm to a micro switch. The whole thing should be a replacement part as the pump itself is fine....but no....you got to buy the whole contraption. I've now got a spare pump if I ever burn out the existing pump (leaving a good switch) I'm golden.

 

When we bought our 5th wheel, I would use the time parked outside the gate (waiting to get in) to fix issues with the trailer. You just need to have replacement parts in hand.

 

Just an observation. I own a Grand Design 5th Wheel Toy Hauler...a triple axle unit that is about 44' long. As a G.D. owner, I am on a couple of G.D. forums as well as 8 or 9 G.D. specific facebook pages. Over the last couple of months, I am seeing a LOT of trailer going up for sale.....a LOT! A couple of thoughts on that happening. I believe that many, many people bought campers over the last couple of years as a way to somewhat normalize themselves during the Covid period. Now, they are beginning to see a much improved sense of "normalcy" in regard to Covid, and they just don't want to bother with a camper trailer any longer. They are also coming to realize that there is more work involved in having a camper than they originally realized, not to mention the costs involved with owning one. Insurance, payments (many of them were bought on credit), storage fees, lack of strong dealer support networks (months of waiting to get an appt. for repair), etc. And of course, some of them come to realize that they just don't like camping. The result is literally thousands and thousands of pre owned campers showing up on for sale pages, RV internet markets, as well as other sources to try and get them gone. Some folks, because of where they are financially (up side down in some cases), they are advertising them for more than a new one would cost. And mentioning new units, YES....the pricing has gone up an up over the last couple of years. Supply chain issue and customer demand for new units have both contributed to the rising costs for a new trailer. And yes, there are still some dealers that are willing to discount new units, although in most cases, that discounted amount is not as great as it was when there was a glut of new campers for sale on their lots......which makes sense according to the laws of supply and demand. Looking for used units is still a "buyer beware" just as it has been forever. Some of the glut of new buyers don't know how to take care of, or operate, or maintain their new toys, and as such, as a buyer, you must be very careful of what they are selling and how it has been taken care of.....or not.

 

RV = part time job

 

LOL....lots of truth to that statement. Combine that with the fact that I like doing mods to ours, I do spend some time outside doing "stuff" to it. Knock on wood, our has been mostly trouble free. Yes, there have been some issues and I've been able to take care of them myself. The biggest job, not necessarily hard work, just trying to figure out exactly how to do it, was adjusting the curbside slide room which contains a 4 person dinette table and a 60" sofa. The slide needed adjustment so that it didn't tip upwards as it was being brought in. After watching some youtube videos on how to do it, I managed to get it back to working as it should. That particular adjustment is one that you definitely need to do in baby steps. If you adjust it up too much, the inside part of the slide digs into the flooring and tears it....so slow and easy and small increments of adjustment until it comes in properly....then lock everything down.