Let's be honest. "Dreamers" = illegals

There will always be exceptions. But I would bet money that none of the people you are referencing were burdens to society when they immigrated. There was no guarantee that they would be high level performers but I am pretty sure there would have been indicators that they would be productive members of society. But what I am seeing IMO tells me that there is too much chaff being let in with the wheat and the system needs to be fixed. Would I be let in under my own rules? Hell, I don't know. I am not anti immigrant by any means but I am definitely anti anyone with a tear jerker sob story. Once again IMO, just being drug in to the country illegally by your parents should not entitle you to an immigration fast pass.

 

Are you thankful enough that if I show up in your area you will treat me to dark beer and cured meats?

 

Yes. You can even call me a Marxist scum and I will call you fascist pig and we can salute each other and drink stout and eat Jamon until we puke. My Catalan friends insist on this kind of repartee, so I have it down pat. Well, not the puking part. I put that in there because of your maple-leaf heritage.

 

That was cold, eh.

 

Yes, I would...and the technical term is dick.
Assholes get fucked. There's a lot of assholes in this country. They're playin' it soft in the hopes that the reaming won't be too hard.
I don't play soft but, despite having a hardcore motherfuckyou attitude, I do have a mushy inside. This is not a situation calling for mushiness. I equate it, as previously mentioned, to a party with uninvited guests. Get the fuck OUT!

 

Aw, c'mon, now. You're ruining my charisma.

 

Come on Mongo. You are supposed to let people hint at racism in an attempt to discredit others. Your use of facts and logic is just not fair!

 

In case anyone prone to being triggered was thinking otherwise, having a good, healthy attitude like mine has nothing to do with racism, it's about right and wrong.
If you can't distinguish the difference, perhaps you need an attitude adjustment.

 

You wouldn't say that to a black man, Adolph.

 

Triggered much, Heinrich?

 

Jawohl!

 

And being brought some place by your parents is?

 

Future enemy combatants for an invading army.

 

http://www.denverpost.com/2017/08/29/mavni-immigrants-daca-military/

 

http://m.torontosun.com/2017/09/09/there-is-no-such-thing-as-a-deserving-dreamer

 

Fair enough, but I can tell you first and second hand that when it comes to immigrants (especially ones with noticeable accents and different dress or any other easy identifiers) the automatic perception is that when they start with nothing (or appear to have nothing) they are considered a burden regardless of the actually facts (and are treated accordingly). In a lot of cases I personally know of – that is a very big mistake (especially if somebody is looking for a job, insight on how to become more successful, supplemental professional training in a variety of fields. . .or increasing the economic productivity of their country in the long term).

I have immigration debates frequently with my parents, their immigrant friends (from all continents) and overwhelmingly they are hard liners for the reasons stated in this thread by you and others. Overall, they have little to no sympathy for those who have done illegally what they did legally. They also have little to no sympathy for the sob stories natives tell about how immigrants are impacting their ability to be successful in a country where being native born comes with significant built in advantages that they overwhelmingly take for granted (and that their doing so is more a direct reflection of what they have been able to accomplish v “immigrants holding them back”).

Personally, I see a lot of similarities to legal and illegal immigrants that even legal immigrants don’t see or respect because of cultural bias/emotional attachment to the work they put into becoming legal ect. IMO, it makes them just as ignorant on the subject because their view just collapsed into a short/narrow spectrum (which is particularly ironic considering that often their successes were predicated on the ability to have a longer/broader view than most). I recently told my mom and dad that exact point (with a detailed explanation of why) and they agreed that that their personal bias was narrowing their view on the subject and it goes counter to the lessons they taught us for successful problem solving. They did, however, quickly pivot to the following: that amongst them and their legal friends the largest grip with immigrants in general (legal or not) is unwillingness to assimilate. . .and then it got non PC quick.

To answer the last question: none.

To answer the first two statements: My reply was targeted on legal immigrants for a reason. None of those statements quoted were in reference to illegals. Re-read the flow of Galloway's original statement on legals, Sheep’s reply to that statement, Crash’s reply and then your reply that built off of all. Then to exemplify your lack of understanding of the other side of the equation, you didn’t use an example of an illegal you know who had nothing - you used an example of legal immigrants, who had something on day one (housing and job) to show why you didn’t understand the other side.

I showed a glimpse of the other side.

The debate about illegals is starting to bleed into views on those here legally. In your own reply, you show the dangers of such a thing happening because you’re starting to contradict your own belief system. On the one hand you use your wife and her family as an example of what it should be. . .but then state that “whole US thing in a nutshell” is the ability to follow the rules and build a life from nothing. If that last statement is correct – there was nothing for you (or others) to be confused about in terms of those here legally.

The arguements about the pros and cons of govt assistence to new legal immigrants will probably rage long after we're dead, but my central point is not addressing that. It's that no one here knows what they are going to become when they arrive so arguing that tangible benefits at time of immigration be a requirement is short sighted at best (especially considering that most don't start hitting their peak productivity until their 40's and 50's in terms of economic output).