How about a fresh thread for Kramers?

As would I.

apparently this guy hasn’t raced or ridden any Aprilia.

nothing against Kramer but not even on the same planet as a well set up Aprilia.
Of course I’m just speculating based off of the other many Aprilia I have ridden.

 

I’m sure their (Moto2) chassis supplier doesn’t know much about handling.

Remind us again... when was the last time Aprilia won... anything?


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Did they win a couple world superbike championships just a few years ago?

how many does Kramer have? My memory is foggy.

 

I'm sure the Aprilia will make a fine race bike once properly built, but it's a street bike first and foremost. Nobody will really know how good the chassis is until they start pushing (and crashing) them. Where did Aprilia have to cut corners to get to the desired price point?

I can tell you the Krämer product is first rate. I've had a chance to race a few of the EVO2R machines (690cc single) and have been thoroughly impressed. Support from Krämer USA is great. I mean, you're buying a turn key race bike. You literally do nothing but ride, and the harder you ride the bike the better it gets. Have you seen Kayla's lap times on the Krämer this year??? Contrary to what's been said in other threads, you can build/tune these motors if one desires. There are big bore kits, as well as cam options out there.

I've also had a chance to ride the new Krämer GP2, which uses the 2020 KTM 890R engine. Superbadass.

 

A Kramer with the 790//890 sounds like the bees kneecaps.

Hopefully Aprilia does something similar with the RS660


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Not quite “few,” but yes most recent 2014. Crazy how time marches on.


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Nice but what’s the price?


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Well, I was supposed to get on the track with the RS 660 later this month, but now that's not quite so certain since Aprilia didn't like my review too much.

I will say, the RS 660 is going to be a tough to beat at horsepower tracks, and it's going to be a wrecking ball in any supersport/stock class. SV650 and MT-07's are now obsolete.

I don't think any amount of money thrown at the RS 660 will close the gap to the 140 lbs advantage that the Kramer has. $5k on the Aprilia will get you in the ballpark with parity on brakes, suspension, and wheels - but mass is mass, and that means the Kramer will still always brake deeper, turn faster, and be easier to handle on tight circuits.

 

67hp on pump, 71hp on T4, 73hp on U4.4/EX02, and 75hp on MR12.

 

It depends on the streetbike, but yes, it's pretty doable on a lot of bikes. I took 70+lbs off a 250 Ninja and got an SV under 325. Both still had steel gas tanks and not a much in the way of exotic materials on them plus a lot more that could be done. I'd be disapointed if 50lbs couldn't be taken off the Aprilia.

On another note: The 100 hp number reminds me of my FZ750 back in the day. A big deal was made about it having 100 hp but it really had around 85 at the rear wheel. Granted, I would rather start at 85 with the Aprilia than start with less on another bike and have to build the crap out of it just to stay in the same ballpark.

I think what will really set the Aprilia apart is if the chassis is more capable than the other bikes in its class. The truth is that none of the twins that we're talking about (including the Aprilia) are designed primarily as cutting edge sportbikes. We'll just have to see how much we can un-compromise the compromises that Aprilia has made with the RS660.

The Kramer is just a different animal. I love the idea of a sub 280 lb racebike with 80hp and that's probably what I'll build next. I should've stuck a KTM 690 motor into my FZR400 chassis to begin with as it was already at 285lb with an XR650R motor and heavy wheels.

 

I don't understand why people are comparing the Kramer to the Aprilia.

Under WERA's current rule structure, the Kramer would only be allowed in F2. It's a purpose built race bike with no street bike application, which would rule it out of SuperStock and SuperBike.

The Aprilia, once homologated, would be eligible for all 3 along with maybe MA's Twins Cup.

 

Get your common sense butt out of here this is no place for that!

 

WERA allows the Kramer in Superbike classes.

9.5 SUPERBIKE
" a) In Superbike the original combination of frame and motor must be maintained except in the case of similar models with directly interchangeable engines. Single cylinder machines may use any engine, frame, and fairing combination."

 

So what about the statement above that one?

5. SUPERBIKE: Machines intended for use on public roads in their origins with more than 1000 units available worldwide may be changed or modified, to any degree, with the following restrictions:
a) In Superbike the original combination of frame and motor must be maintained except in the case of similar models with directly interchangeable engines. Single cylinder machines may use any engine, frame, and fairing combination.
b) 2 stroke GP machines will not be allowed to participate in Superbike (based) classes unless otherwise noted.

 

I thought reading the rulebook that the Kramer can race Clubman, F2, and LWT SB.

Since LWT SB, it states that singles fall under Formula rules not SB rules and since the Kramer isn't a 250 GP bike I thought it would be eligible for Clubman

6. FORMULA 1, FORMULA 2, FORMULA 3 and CLUBMAN (or any subsection of a class that specifies “Formula Rules”) Have no restrictions other than displacement, fuel limits as outlined in Chapter 8, and configuration as outlined below.

LIGHTWEIGHT TWINS SUPERBIKE EXPERT & NOVICE and LIGHTWEIGHT TWINS SUPERSTOCK EXPERT & NOVICE
Up to 800cc air-cooled twins
Up to 750cc water-cooled twins with 3 valves
Up to 700cc water-cooled twins with more than 3 valves
Unlimited singles based on Formula rules (Superbike only)
*Buell Firebolt and Lightning, Harley-Davidson XR1200 (AMA Spec class limits in SS & SB), Ducati 900SS and any model using the 1000DS or 1100DS engine are allowed under Superstock rules in LWTSB only.
*There are no bodywork limits in LWT.

FORMULA 2 EXPERT & NOVICE
Up to 396cc 2-stroke water-cooled twins
Up to 500cc 2-stroke air-cooled twins and multis
Up to700cc 4-stroke twins
Up to 600cc 4-stroke air-cooled multis
Up to 565cc 4-stroke water-cooled multis
Unlimited singles
All D Superbike and LWT (SS and SB) Machines (must retain orignal class legality)

CLUBMAN EXPERT & NOVICE (all below based on Formula rules except as noted)
Unlimited displacement 2 & 4-stroke singles
Up to 605cc 4-stroke water-cooled twins
Up to 650cc 4-stroke air-cooled twins
Up to 250cc 4-stroke water-cooled multis
Up to 600cc 4-stroke air-cooled 2 valve per cylinder multis
Up to 570cc 4-stroke air-cooled 4 valve per cylinder multis
Up to 450cc 2-stroke air-cooled multis
Up to 396cc 2-stroke water-cooled multis
All Vintage 3, 4, and Formula 2-stroke machines
*Honda Hawks and Air cooled Ducati 750’s, 250cc 2-stroke GP replica machines (TZR, NSR, RGV, etc..), Aprilia Cup, and Triumph Thruxton, are allowed but limited to Superstock mods, no Ducati Supermono. 250cc GP machines are not allowed.

 

I didn't read the caveat under the twins rules about singles. And I forgot about Clubman.

So you're correct, Clubman, F2 and LWTSB. The only one that it's not eligible for would be LWTSS I guess.

 

I do realize that this is supposed to be a WERA board, but not everyone races WERA, nor does so exclusively.

 

Supposed to be?

 

I thought it was!

 

Da fug???? Ive been on the wrong board all these years. Son of a Pabst Blue Ribbon!