"Gender Equality"

You know what, though, I think we've pretty well exhausted this topic. Nobody here is going to change their mind because it's pretty clear that there are some polar positions where people just will never change. There is little more to be gained in discussing this, because it's starting to get to the point where people are taking words out of context and all kinds of crap.

I'd rather talk about military equipment.

 

Sure

Women can't do 66 (93 point) push ups, 74 (94 points) sit ups and two miles in 13:24 (93 points). That the standard for 17-21 year old men.

 

Most cannot. But again - I think I'm done with this one.

 

The APFT is just a basic test...PU SU Run. No gear, no weapons. You can go as hard/fast or easy/slow as you want (or afford if you score too low).

A high APFT score doesn't mean they are going to defeat enemies on their own. It helps keep a standard level of phyical readiness and appearance.

Now change out of the t-shirt, shorts, and running shoes. Put on the duty uniform, boots, plates/vest, helmet, full ruck, weapon, ammo. Carry this on different terrain in varying conditions at a pace to meet mission check points. It is way different.

It is easy to train for 2 mins of pushups or situps and a 2 mile run....the training for combat missions is much more involved and intense.

Bottom line is there some females that could do the combat requirements. The number of them is very low. The number out of that population that actually want to do this is even less. The number now that can pass all the training/schooling/medical is lower. See how it will be extremely tough to have an all female combat unit.

I wish there was a way to do a "ride along" with our jobs. I would come do Firefighter training with you and your unit and you come to my Army unit and train with us. Then we can see how difficult the job is and how we stack up against the standards needed and the top performers in each setting.

 

More than that percentage can join...they just choose not too. Again having enough of any group that can do it and want to do it is one of the challenges.

 

I completely get that.

My broad general point is that there is no real minimum standard for combat. There is standard for a PT test, but not actual combat. I maxed my run time twice in my 5 years (At the time I believe my max time was 11:54), but I could run a 7:30-8 minute a mile pace all damn day. Point being, even though I couldn't max my run, doesn't mean I wouldn't be combat capable. You have to start a standard somewhere, and the only starting point I can think of is the APFT.

 

I wasn't directing this at you. It was for the folks saying "if they can past the standard tests" then they can do it all.

 

Luke isn't the majority. And it wasn't just about women in combat. What she said was, and I quote...

"That the possibility of women having the physical ability to do the job exists.

Which is what the majority of men here say don't exist."

The majority of men here are NOT saying that there is not the possibility of women having the physical ability to do the job. Period. People have said most women can't, perhaps that they shouldn't, depending on role. People (I) have said that in addition to the physical ability of that individual female to do the job there are other considerations. But the majority of men here did NOT say that there wasn't the possibility of women having the physical ability to do the job.

 

Can we end this, because we're obviously never going to agree.

We can use any logical reason to create systems to make the most effective teams. If that small percentage brings with it any additional complexity, cost or impact, then absolutely we can use it as a reason. Period.

Please let's end this. Nobody here is going to change their mind.

 

COC for a tank company is CPT, company commander who has his own tank, 1LT XO who has his own tank, and 3 2LT platoon leaders who lead 3 other tanks besides their own. Their is also a headquarters platoon who is under the control of the XO.

 

I think the answer they were looking for was what a TC was. And the answer is that in a number of tanks in an Armor company, the TC (tank commander) is an NCO - not a commissioned officer.

 

Would you settle for half wits?

 

For what it's worth - I have a close friend that was a sniper in a conflict he can't even talk about. Don't know what branch or unit. He does not disagree with anything I have said. He also believes that women belong in the kitchen and not in the military.

Point being: not all hard core military guys think the same.