Fluorescent Lights Question

PFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF......etc.

 

My house is haunted also.

Actually, it's not, but the neutral is carrying about 10v. I noticed it when I was decommissioning the hot water heater plug (went with a gas insta-hot) and it touched the box and arced a little. I put the tester on it and it showed 10v.

How do I locate the circuit with the short? If I take the panel off, I can test one side and at least see which leg is hot....but that only narrows it down to half the circuits in the house. The panel was replaced about 5 years ago, the rest of the wiring in the house is original....1970's.

 

Whatever I suggest, you have to do without question, ok?

Now go to your local hardware store and buy a pair of galvanized steel buckets, big enough to stick your foot in...

 

Neutral to what? Earth or to the grounding conductor?

What are your voltages phase to phase and phase to neutral? Do they fluctuate significantly with any heavy loads, particularly a single phase load? Do you see a voltage increase on the opposite phase when that load is applied?

Arcing from neutral to ground is a sign of poor conductance over the neutral conductor. Poor connections at the service entrance are where I usually see it, but I’ve had shitty connections through meter sockets and in panels cause it too.

Many “fresh” electricians don’t understand that the neutral carries as much current as the phase conductor and are less diligent at making secure connections. Making sure you don’t have double lugged neutrals on your neutral bus, that all connections are clean and tight, and that proper antioxidant is applied to aluminum conductors can all affect that neutral to ground potential. Making sure your primary ground is clean and tight and that the bond in your main disconnect between the neutral and ground SHOULD eliminate the potential between them.

Simply put, the wiring should be the least resistive path for current to flow, keeping you from becoming a conductor and a corpse if you happen to get between a load and a path to ground.

 

I have always wondered literally how power guys work on feed lines while they're hot. Once you touch a wrench to the nut, the wrench is also hot. ........ what happens then?

My line voltage is 160v which, according to the google, seems to be a common symptom of needing to do exactly the above.

Can oyu link or point to a product? Searching Amazon for "led tri mode lamp" turns up nothing. I just bought https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0748YTDMK/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_image_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1 the other day to do exactly this - replace nine dead and one dying fluorescent ballasts - but if it's better to reuse and rewire the existing fixtures, I'm down for that too.

 

I think that link in post 31 is what you/me need. I’m about to order it now.

 

Go for it...either option is OK.

 

If you only touch one, you’re not completing a circuit, and you’re neither a conductor or a resister. You’re just charged.

And the other phase to neutral should be about 80vac. The phases are 180 degrees apart in the transformer, and have a potential of 240vac. The neutral is generated by the transformer, and if not properly grounded at the transformer and bonded to ground at the main disconnect, with a low-resistance connections to the neutral conductor of your load, will give you fluctuating and confusing readings phase to neutral, as the other phase “absorbs” the current through any 2-pole loads that are live. Can easily burn up motors and overload conductors with the excess current passing through them.

I get mine through my distributors, the main ones I get are from James Industry (http://www.jamesindustry.com/index.html) (I use their BIXX lamps). The 18w and higher are tri-mode, the “nano” line are dual mode double-ended (which I only discovered when plumbing some non-shunted tombstones in my garage and wiring them for single-end connections).

 

Those are single mode double ended, which IMHO are the easiest to retro.

However, you’re going to want to diagnose your likely neutral issue before going gangbusters relamping everything. Rereading your OP, the new ballast likely failed so soon because of voltage issues. Solid state stuff doesn’t hold up like magnetic ballasts do to transient voltages. The drivers will likely burn up pretty quickly with the electrical system issues you’re having.

 

The work practice is called "Insulate and Isolate".

You work one conductor at a time (isolate) and wear rubber gloves (insulate) for the voltage you are working on. You also use rubber hoses and blankets to cover up other phases to protect yourself from incidental contact.

The trucks are also insulated and tested, at least yearly, but more frequently at the company I work for.

You can't touch higher voltages without rubber gloves, even working out of an insulated bucked. You will get your ass lit up.

While not allowed, you could work up to 4kv in clean, dry, leather gloves out of an insulated bucket. You will probably be fired on the spot if anyone ever caught you doing it, though.

There are two other work practices....one is called "Barehand" and the other is "Hot stick". Those are mainly used in working transmission voltages.

 

Sorry if this is basic, but I thought the neutral (white) was the power company's ground (earth) and should be unbroken throughout the house. Then you have the hot leg (110v) and earth. The 220v outlets have two hot legs, one ground, one neutral. The Ground (earth) should go to my grounding rod outside my house.

Because the neutral has some voltage in it, my assumption is that one of my circuits has a short somewhere along the line and that is causing the neutral to be energized? Trying to figure out the easiest way to isolate that short.

Besides calling an electrician, of course.

 

Nope.

The neutral is the grounded conductor. It is generated by the transformer at the center of the two diametric poles, 180 degrees apart, with a potential of 240v pole to pole and 120v pole to neutral.

That conductor gets bonded to ground at the transformer, so its potential to ground is zero. When that conductor arrives at your main disconnect, it is once again bonded to ground at the main disconnect, so again the potential neutral to ground is zero (hence the term “neutral”).

The neutral carries current but not voltage when there is a single pole load utilizing it. If that neutral conductor is disconnected from the neutral bus, it will carry voltage, and it will have potential to ground. Somewhere, the neutral connection has greater resistance than the ground of the steel box.

And the neutral and ground should be bonded at your main disconnect. They have to be isolated from each other past that point.

Start at the beginning. Make sure all your connections are clean and tight from the meter socket onward.

And if you’re not comfortable with your hands in live electrical gear, bite the bullet and be thankful you aren’t calling a plumber

 

This I guess is the sticking point for me. I'm charged... and I'm (in a "regular" manner of speaking) touching ground... so aren't I a path from the conductor to ground?

I suppose that as long as my total resistance (ie boots, gloves, wood/carpet under my feet, etc) is still high enough that no significant current can flow, I'm still good. It's only once I become a path of low enough resistance that things become scary. Is that the reasoning?

 

Essentially yes.
Voltage = Current x Resistance So if your current return path has enough resistance, the voltage may not be high enough to pass enough current across your path to kill you.

BTW: for some current paths through the body, 0.01A (10mA) at household line voltage is more than enough to do you in.

 

Makes sense. Looking up electrical resistance values for household materials made me feel a lot better - didn't realize that hard rubber was about 100x less conductive than 40% humidity air, for example lol. I had initially just kind of assumed "well, since I am touching ground, if I touch a hot main, I am now the path from hot to ground" heh. Didn't realize that simply putting on some dry Muck boots kicked me up to about 100 GΩ minimum.

 

Just don't let there be a pinhole in that rubber, or a sock thread hanging over the edge. In this game, the little things count big.

 

Just to close the loop on this - swapped in the LED bulbs and things have been going swimmingly. None of the fluoro BS with ballasts and a delay in firing up.

Highly recommended.

 

Told ya

 

I replaced 24 of the bulbs in the shop with the Barrinna ones, they are way better than the first batch we used. just to see how long they last now.