I'd argue the BMW for being the top street going bike since it came with cruise control and heated grips from the factory.
I don't disagree with any of that. There is no denying the Honda is best RR for the street. It by far has the best ergo's (aside from the KTM RC8R, which isn't too far from ST bike ergos). But all of that is irrelevant and has no bearing in the discussion. We have to compared apples to apples. The CBR1000RR is Honda's offering for the "RR segment", and that is the bike they use in production based race classes. So it has to be compared with the other offerings from other OEMs that also produce RR bikes for the street and use them in production race classes...and the Honda sucks in comparison. It doesn't make sense to say "well, it only sucks because it is a street bike". So are all the others. All of the other OEMs build replicas for the street, just like Honda. It also doesn't make sense to make the assumption "well, it just sucks because Honda doesn't care about production racing". That is an opinion, and not backed by any facts. They enter all the same series as the other OEMs (even more than some other OEMs in some cases). They obviously cared enough to do such a big shakeup in WSBK. They also obviously cared enough to come out with an all-new RR in 2017. They problem is that it is still slow compared to all the others. It is the bike they should have released in 2010. If Honda didn't build an RR bike at all, or didn't participate in any production based race classes, then those statements might have some validity. But they do, they do, and they don't.
As I stated earlier, I defer to your up-to-date awareness of the current/recent racing scene...I haven't seen a race of any kind for some time now and only chase whatever links may appear on the Beeb. It seems to me tho', as uniformed as I am, that MotoGP is Honda's only factory effort. If I'm wrong about that, where else is Honda putting forth an effort? I'd like to believe they were engaged in all types of racing and put their best foot forward in every one of those ventures, but I know that ain't the way Honda rolls. They simply don't operate that way. However, would you not also agree that when they do focus on a particular category, the competing factories gotta step up their own game to keep up? Time and again... Imagine if Honda took production based racing as seriously as "the little guy" OEM. I think, frankly, Honda prefers to "play" at the pointy end of the sharpest metal and, by so doing, further the technological possibilities - not simply fine tune existing tech. Does that cause hate and discontent to be cast their way. Seems like it. Do they care? Doesn't seem like it. Consider what they bring to the whole of motorcycling. Does anyone else have DCT in production based bikes? Will we see further introductions of MotoGP technology infused into our daily lives? If so, by whom? Which one of these MFGs puts it on the line in the real world? Yamaha certainly steps up now and then. I've never seen, nor can I think of, any other MFG bringing to the world the innovation that Honda brings. BMW? Sure, why not...the ADV crowd received Paralever/Telelever suspension. Does that help other categories of motorcycling? Not so much. So, really, who's bringing it? Perhaps Honda doesn't please most of the racers most of the time, but who else is consistently bringing innovation to the production world? Name one innovation that can be traced back to a single motorcycle MFG that has become, still is and/or has developed further for the benefit of all MFGs. If Honda breaks a few hearts along the way, hey - blood, sweat and tears. You know that's how shit gets done in the real world. Love ya, Broome.
Interesting perspective, but I still am not buying a Honda. I rode a buddy's 2008 CBR 1000 and it was one of the most boring bikes I have ever rode. Might as well put wheels on a refrigerator.
I beg to differ. Yes Honda has had DCT in bikes for nearly 10years, but don’t think that tech started with Honda. It started with the Germans of the auto industry. Aside from that, what ‘straight from MotoGP/Racing’ does Honda have that no one else does? Even they’re fanciest Fireblade SP uses standard forks, I4 engine, swingarm, rear shock, twin spar frame, 6spd gearbox - literally not a single ‘Honda only’ thing on that machine. Meanwhile, Ducati from having refined the Desmo system in racing, to the point where it now resides in a 1000cc streetbike capable of revving to 16.5k rpm. They also now utilize a V4 engine derived from its GP program. It’s also the one of 2 manufacturers to offer winglets that are most definitely derivative of racing. Ducati was also the first road bike to offer traction control (far more useful than a DCT gearbox in my opinion). First to use color displays for instruments (which also came from GP/SBK), first to offer lap data recording from the factory. I could go on and on. Most of the other Japanese have followed suit as well, with Kawasaki now making a SERIOUS engine in the new ZX10RR with Ti rods, finger roller valvetrain, Ti exhaust, all a benefit to and from Racing. Suzuki uses the only mechanical VVT system i think I’ve ever seen for the sole purpose of making it usable on SBK. Awesome stuff. Honda just flat out ain’t trying. At least I hope they’re not. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Can't disagree, but a lot of tech comes from the auto world. Developing it for a bike is innovation. Going back to dinosaur days...forks, swingarms, frames, engines, wheels, brakes...all this existed in one way or another. While an I4 may not have been new to a bike, Honda mounted it transversely and did something else innovative at the same time, disc brakes. V4? Honda did it. Another example from Honda, mag wheels vs spokes. The first mag on a bike was long before Honda. About 45 years later, ten years after mags were reintroduced to bikes using alloys, Honda introduced the first tubeless mag...Comstar. What else, I couldn't say... We pretty much take a lot of the status quo, and current tech, for granted. It's here and it's gonna keep coming, but from the beginning, Honda led the way. Honda just flat out ain’t trying. At least I hope they’re not. There's enough to worry about with the current tech to bother digging deep for applying newer tech. When it happens, I'm bettin' on Honda. Mind you, I'm talking about this tech's introduction to production machines. DCT? What bike from Honda had DCT 10 years ago? (I had no idea.)
VFR1200 first came with DCT in 2010 I believe. And I agree, Honda used to be great. And probably still could be if they wanted to. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I think Honda has the highest quality OEM componentry followed by a very close second in Yamaha or they could be at the same level; so I will give them credit on that. But if I were to sum up their presence over the last 7 years or so I would say 'uninspired'.
Presence where? Did they not win the most exclusive motorcycle racing championship in the world 5 of those 7 years?
Everyone is bustin' their rears to be on top. Honda? It's like they're sand-baggin'. <duckin' for cover>
