Crashfest/cycle jam

Ok, I guess this will be an extra post I'll be making..........

Thanks for the information! I really apprecaited it.

I am not trying to blame anyone for my crash nor finding an excuse that it's indeed not my fault. I was not on grass nor close of it when I crashed. I was on the outside of the RS250 racer in turn 1 about a bike length behind him as I tried to set up a line to be on inside of Turn 2. I was close to the middle of the track when the front end just tucked and sliding off the track onto the grass. My bike and I stopped less than 10 feet from the edge of the track, and I pushed the bike toward the tire wall as soon as the corner worker came to check on me.

I am really not a street squid nor a slow rider trying to act like a fast one. But talk is cheap, most will see for themselves if they decided to be patient and see how I turned out as a racer.

Besides the plan/schedule didn't go as planned. I do want to give WERA BIG CREDITS to trying to do their best to make things as smooth as possible, and all the corner/track workers for their fast actions and great helps!

Wrong. The surface was cleaned from the small amount of fluid that was laid down in practice FRIDAY morning. How much fluid can a TZ put down? About 2 oz of gas/oil mix, that's what, and it was out by the very edge of the track. The endurance race was run without T1 being much of an issue. So how does 2 oz of gas/oil mix in a 6 inch circle become not cleaned up as good as in previous clrashes? ANd howhat previous crashes in T1 left fluid on the track? NONE! If there were any, I would have been there on clean-up.

The one crash on the front occurred BEFORE the #6 brake marker, or some 300 feet before the turning-in point. No fluids were laid down there.

What is more likely the answer is the track has become a bit worn there. I noted a number of rear wheels stepping out when power was being applied past the apex. Crashes from too much power being applied at that location results in a high-side. Funny, I did not see but evidence of 1 high-side coming out of T1. Crashes that I saw and saw evidence of were from lowsides at the apex and on the brakes entering the turn, nOT from the one point where a high-side occurs.

I watched any number of races in T1. Most of what I saw was rider error: lowsides on the track then sliding off-track. Some crashed when trying to turn on the grass. Some crashed when they grabbed the front brake when riding the grass instead of the rear brake. Some ride-offs happened when a rider was forced wide or over-cooked the entry. One happened when a rider (who shall remain nameless except for this initials "Terrence" oke who looked at me instead of the track. The only mass crash in T1 was the 2nd CSS start on Saturday. And that was less of mass crash than a number of riders who rode off taking evasive action. Matter of fact, more riders rode off than crashed.

IMHO: Too many people raced into T1 over thier heads.

Again, IMHO: It is the rider's responsibility to race on the ROAD part of the racetrack.

But what do I know. I'm old and I retired this year after being an official since 1988, so I am sure most of you have seen or investigated more crashes than me. [/QUOTE]

 

Sunny, do yourself a favor and stop with the bear baiting. Your inflammatory and self-contradicting commentary has completely demolished any sort of legitimacy your point(s) may have had. And I do think you made at least one legitimate point. In your inexperience, you did not foresee that the events of a day could bring about a situation where your race, which was scheduled for that day, could be postponed to the next day. Based on some of the commentary of this thread, it appears that while this situation is not a frequent occurrence and one that WERA management actively tries to avoid, it does happen. And it is just one of many things I’ve come across that experienced racers know and inexperienced ones do not. For example, Paige seemed annoyed that she had to check/input the sponsors listed for participants who wrote them out, instead of just writing “same”, when that listing hadn’t changed. An experienced racer might know to write same because he/she was told that at some point, but an inexperienced one would not, because it does not state that on the form or on the instructions to the form. While the upshot of this particular kernel of knowledge is of no consequence to a racer, knowing that your race might not come off on a given day due to scheduling difficulties during the event is of great consequence. It would give you a much better understanding of the risk you run if you try to squeeze a race into a personal schedule with commitments on deck for the next day. While some may think that Sunny does not deserve these sorts of “helpful hints”, I think there are many racers new to WERA that would benefit greatly from this sort of knowledge. Perhaps TFRB is not the place for it, but a new tab on the website might be.

 

Yzasserina, I have thought about that. I think a "newbie" forum or just stuck post would be helpful.

 

Great, thanks for making improvement/s as you learn more from experience. However as a customer, I wouldn't know the effort you have put in nor things you are trying to do unless you tell me (which could be done at the first place before this thread went crazy).

I don't remember saying that you/WERA aren't professional enough in scheduling, but that this particular VIR event isn't planned very well, and that you/Mongo/Sean isn;t very professional when representing WERA on this BBS answering customers' questions/complaints. I'll take what I said about you back because I realized that there wouldn't be any problems between us and probably any disagreement if we talked in person (or privately on the phone). I must admit that airing my opinions to this thread is not a wise decision at all.

I'll buy you (plus Paige and whoever is offeded in the WERA's office) a beer if you will be at the Nelson round in July!

At last, I do want to send out a BIG THANKS to all the corner/track workers for their fast actions and great helps! The races could have been a lot longer even it wasn't for how fast and good they can help the unfortunate ones out of the danger zone or back in the race!

 

10.

No, I don't work for WERA during the week or on weekends, for that matter, anymore. Just an observation from some one who outgrew his orange shirt (by 3 sizes ) back when you were playing t-ball.

 

Give your self a 10 Rain Man (definately...definately...a ten ) after seein you jump in the middle of the track to pick up that bike in seven and doucing that little bar-b-q on the back straight That's darn heroic type stuff

 

For you information, this was my first visit to VIR (maybe same for you). The practice session is the first time I seen the track.

Just curious, what made you think that I won't be 3 second faster as you have if I didn't crash as I picked up more track knowledge with more lap and a faster rider ahead of me showing me better line? Did you assume that you are the only one who could improve lap time and I can only match my best from practice? Granted, I am definitely a losser for which I didn't get to finish the race due to my crash. I believe in the only lossers being the ones who didn't get to finished the races no matter how fast he/she was before he/she wasn't able to continue with the race and finish as others for whatever reason. But are you assuming things too quick? I obviously haven't assumed that you are a slow rider yet although I was ahead of you while I was still on the track racing.

On more thing, I never said I was fast if you've read my postings. However, some other and you suggested that you MAY be faster, and I am just saying that I too COULD be faster!

So what exactly do you race on and your competiton numbers? I can't figure out which one you are on the mylaps.com, nor comfirm if you are the one on supermotard which in my momery is the guy directly behind me as I entered T1.

 

As an "EVENT PLANNER", YOU, OF ALL PEOPLE, should KNOW that things do not go as planned.

Does everythinghappen as planned at your events? Did you ever have to make decisions based on what was happening that did not happen accoring to the plan?

WERA made decisions because things did not go as planned. Crashes, such as you were involved in, are not planned and are not on the schedule.

Blame yourself for screwing up a well-planned AND well-executed event.

 

Remember the big guy that gave you a nod and thumbs up on the grid. On the outside of the front row, orange and gray bike, #965, Cliff Finney. That was me, I got the holeshot and then got swallowed up in T1, I always do and I fully expected it to happen again. I do not have the balls to go into T1 like I should on the first lap. And you are right it was a motard, another duc, and me all right behind you. The motard was actually looking like he was about to go inside and try to outrun you to T2. I was maybe 6 bike lengths back when you lost it. That why I didn't know if you reached for the brakes or not, I just know the front went away REAL fast.

And you're right, It was my first time as well. I don't know if you would've knocked the time off your laps or not. I just was trying to help you understand what happened, then you called me out. I'll admit, I got a bit bent outta shape. I was actually looking forward to dicing with you. As I thought you would've stepped it up a bit and put up a good race and I've always liked your bike.

I look forward to running with you again at the GNF.

Cliff
965

 

Assuming you didn't read all the posts, my crash didn't cause any delay, nor I screw up so I couldn't be not able to race in my second race which was postponed to Sunday.

 

shut uppp

sunyy
holly crap, i started reading this crap about an hour ago when there was only six pages......this thing is growing faster than i can read, so either shut the hell up untill i catch up or someone please put together a summary at ..say page 15

 

i thought sunny was going to only post one more time about 50,000 posts ago...sorry couodnt resist

 

Yes, now I remebered you! Your bike is fast although you too over-braked like I do due to not being familar with the track!

I really didn't meant to offend you in any way but it just seems that you were trying to take a cheap shot at me......... I knew I can definitely go a lot faster than the lap time I done during my practice as I basically over-braked and didn't stay on gas as long as I could for the most part of it as I slowly try to figure out the track with no one to follow really (either too slow or too fast, and I don't know any of them).

I'll look forward to racing with you later if there is an event that we'll both be participating! I will only be racing the Sportsman series though as there is no way my skill is good enough to be competitive on my bike against the SV650s and the Duc that pulled away with amazing accleration after T2 of our race (the one I crashed on).

 

I was going to stop on last page, but then more new people jumped in without reading the whole things, so I post a few more to explain a few things........... Ok, I'll quit now if no one posts any more questions.........

 

wait i want to here about your trial and tribulations at vir..ie did you wreck did you get all your practices in,and were you able to race all the scheduled races....oh hey were there alot of bikes on the grid...most of all was wera acting professional? sorry i couldnt resist again

 

Yeah, I suck at first laps. I'm easily 2-3 seconds slower than I should be on the first laps. Like i said, lack of testicular fortitude.

No, didn't mean it as a cheap shot, sorry if it came across that way, just saying what I saw. I always try to figure out exactly why I went down. That way I know not to do it again, doesn't mean I won't do it again, just that I should know better. Blaming the track, the tires, etc. doesn't help me one bit. Knowing that I screwed up and gave it too much gas, now that I can fix next time.

Cliff

 

Okay I have read all of this and here is my take. Sunny just so you Know Cliff0529 is my son so some of this will be in his defense. First off you were or are a PN you didn't make it thru the weekend with out falling, not uncommon for a PN. Second it was Cliff's first time there also so lap times should be a common denominator for comparision. Ask any of the SE DSS or Clubman people about his abilities and most will tell you he is one of the better riders in either class. Now he is hampered by some weight issues (both rider and bike) but is consistently on the podium in SE events. If you want to know what happened when you went down in DSS he has told you what he saw. You don't tuck the front for no reason, either your setup was wrong or rider error, since the people behind you said there was no debris on the track.

As for your take on WERA you are way off base. I have been involved in organizing events for soccer tournaments here in the SE for 10 years until I gave it up a few years ago. WERA did exactly what they should have done scheduling wise to get the races in. Granted they are in business to make money and provide as safe a racing environment as possible. Here in the SE region the larger classes will get split to provide both expert and novices competitive races on a regular basis. WERA has no control over the amount of entrants until they actually recieve the pre-registration forms. The exception to this would be the GNF which is done by invitation based on your results from the year.

Looking at your profile and where you live and the tone of your post in this thread I am making a big assumption that you work for the major auto manufacturer there. Oh and so you don't think I am anonymous, if my assumption is correct, you can look me up on Outlook with a CDSID of sfinney1. BTW I work at the best plant in the system, AAP, where we know how to do it right even when the people in Dearborn don't have a clue. Hell next time I come up there on business I wouldn't mind having dinner with you. How does Castaldi's sound?

 

I too don't want to blame anyone/anything for my crash as I mentioned. I rather it be me so I can learn something. And seriously, I have no idea of exactly why I went off as I rode the same way (smooth input) at a slower pace than the best time I put in during practice. The only thing that I could think of is that the track surface had become less grippy for whatever reason which most confirmed it's not the case.

I talked to the rider on the supermotard directly behind as I went off after the race. He too said that he couldn't think of a reason to why I went off as the front just tucked and happened really quick as you saw it with no warning (like losing the front to a gravel trap).... I guess I'll just have to not worry about exactly what happened nor try to learn from it as there isn't really anything to be learnt as I simply don't know what happened.