Could you shoot a pistol accurately when scared shirtless? :D

I've seen quite a bit of muzzle flash at night and in general, I wouldn't agree with this statement unless you're using a muzzle loader for home defense.

Also, anyone who teaches someone to close their eyes before they pull the trigger is a plaintiff attorneys dream....

"Mr Smith, explain to me how you shot my client with your Ruger Redhawk 44 magnum? Could it be becuase you had your eyes closed before you pulled the trigger? Weren't you taught that technique by Joe's school of self defensive marksmanship???"

 

No shit, son!

 

An alarm and a dog. Two best way to let you know if someone is around. Your alarm malfunctioned but if in fact it was the real thing, then it did its job which was get your attention. An audible alarm or a dog barking his ass off is going to have most suspects hauling ass out of there. Cameras are everywhere these days and they are a huge aid when it comes to catching the suspect. A jury listening to the DA flap his jaws is one thing. The DA playing a video which shows the suspect was on scene is hard evidence.
Also, owning a gum is one thing. Training with it so you develop muscle memory is crucial when it comes down to the real thing. Take a Marine Corp 0300 or Army 11 Bravo Rifleman with 3-4 years in a line company and he can manipulate an M16/M4 like he was born with it. Take that same Rifleman and put a Remington 870 in his hands and he's going to be fumbling all over the place with it...

 

Threadjack, Suggestions for security camera setups? I'm looking to put in something at home as more than a few neighbors have been burglarized. I'm thinking the lack of windows that can't be seen from the street and a large dog in the back have worked so far. Four cameras would be plenty, be nice to monitor it from work and I'd go with a wired system.

 

What he said.

Interesting tidbit about practicing shooting. While hunting, anytime I shoot a bird, there is a point where I have forgotten that I reloaded my gun. What I mean is, bird flushes, shot(s) fired, bird retrieved and continue hunting. At some point soon there after, I hastily break open my gun, only to find 2 new shells. Then, the memory of reloading hits me. Each and every time. I can only think that shooting thousands and thousands of rounds causes it to become 2nd nature.

 

Also, why limit yourself to a pistol? Headshots with an M4/AR15 variant shooting offhand at 100 yards is not difficult and with frangible rounds you don't have to worry about wacking the neighbor by accident.

 

I could fire at least somewhat accurately under duress. However, firing right after waking up, in the dark seems like the bigger problem. I think a high capacity pistol within reach and a shotgun close by is the best solution. Bringing all of your loved ones into a defensible location while you call the police is also a far better solution than skulking around the house when there might be multiple intruders, it's much easier to blast someone walking by a doorway.

 

I've never had a problem being blinded by muzzle flash during nightfire with the M4/M16. I'm sure your results will vary based on the weapon, but I don't see it as a concern. Seeing well enough in the dark to actually hit shit, that's a different story....

 

That's not self defense (unless it's a zombie). That's assassination.

 

Wow........ The talking out of the ass in this thread is fuckin REDONKULOUS!!!

 

I am not concerned with the dog protecting me , I just know I will know exactly where there intruder is in my yard or home.

My dog has a dirt track around her the shock line.

 

We practice at night now and then. We we fist started we put glow sticks on the targets if the moon is less than 50%. It's a whole different ball game.

Friend is a Sargent in the county and we get to do the combat training range. It's pretty ass puckering to make snap judgments on a range, in real life it would be even more so. We've done it at night twice and it's stupid hard. The stress level is easily double what it is in daylight of not more.

BTW, in the house I'm grabbing the Ithaca Trench gun loaded with #1 shot and 18 inches from me. We'll let Alstate and Service Master worry about the plaster, furniture, artwork and clean up.

 

Ok so I have a few questions.


1... Have you ever been shot at?

2... Have you ever shot at a human?

3... Have you ever trained for accuracy in low light?

4... Are you familiar with your weapon in the dark and can manipulate it's functions with no light...


If you have answered no to any of those questions you can not answer a unequivocal Yes to Kris's question.


Do yourself a favor if you own a gun for home protection.... Get a dog... Even a mid sized dog. Burglars will skip over a house as soon as they hear a dog.

If you are allergic to dogs.... Get the loudest fucking alarm they make. Not only to sound off audibly inside and outside.

Now if you still need protection.... You can get a shotgun for home protection which would be the weapon most recommended. BUT........ With 7 shot bird ammo.. At close range this will blow someones face off.... I have seen a brain on the ground as a result of 7 shot at point blank..... However. If you miss lets say a head shot (which 99.99% of people would not try anyways) it will still incapacitate them. And is unlikely to go through walls and kill your child or neighbor.

A pistol is a terrible home protection weapon for this reason. And also for this reason almost ALL SWAT teams in the US carry M4's instead of the old MP-5's. 9mm will go through a wall and keep going.

Now if any of you HAVE answered yes or you think my questions are..... Well fucking retarded. Do yourself a favor. Do 200 Jumping Jacks, do not skimp out on the number, get your heart rate really going, now do this in the light, then walk into a barn, shed, where ever you can fire a weapon indoors (a range would be ideal obviously) and attempt to hit this target within 5-10 seconds. Fire off 5 rounds at a silhouette, hell for good measure do like STT-Rider said and get a glow stick and tape up 80% of it and put it center mass just to help you out. See how many times you miss.........

 

Agreed..

It take 3,000 repetitions to be able to do something without thinking. In this case shooting someone 3-5 yards away. You will not have any sight picture. Only muscle memory to hit center mass of what you are shooting at.

 

Thankfully, no

Thankfully, no

Ding-ding-ding! We have a winner! That's one of the drills we run in our carry class, and one of the lessons we drive home to the students that they are shooting under ideal conditions, and when the SHTF, it won't be anything like this.

My actual weapon? Only through practice with a replica Airsoft. I'm not going to practice with a real weapon anywhere outside a range.

Absolutely correct. :up:

Dustin, when you practice stress shooting, do you Weaver or do you point-shoot? We did some test sessions with Airsofts and only when doing a "clearing drill" did anyone ever take a Weaver stance. Every other incident of draw & fire was reflexively point-shoot. Curious what your experience has been.

 

Darren of course you can with your actual weapon. Make sure it is properly downloaded, turn off the lights and squeeze away. Then switch to your left hand, squeeze away. The point is, no you aren't hitting a target, but you are familiarizing yourself to your weapon. Best part is, it's the same trigger pressure, and Single action at that (unless you have a Glock or such and it's always the same) so you get used to the pressure and don't pull rounds.

I personally will shoot Weaver sometimes and modified weaver in others when being fired upon by Sims or Paintballs. Live rounds..... Modified also.

Funny part is that I shoot modified Weaver (and the most fucked up shooting style the range director has ever seen) when shooting for POST or any other time I shoot.

Studies have shown that the majority of the time, police will square up to a target, ie.... Weaver.

Look at some film from the LA shootings for a reference, the shooters wearing armor stop walking, and blade their body, albeit with only one hand and were shooting but not accurately. We as LEO's have to shoot accurately, we are responsible for our rounds and what they will go through and hit. You as a home owner have the same responsibility.

EDIT.... Also, Darren, try what I said about the low light drills if you have access to a range. 80% of gun battles occur within 7 yards. So there is no point in setting the target further than that. Not to mention that is also pretty much the maximum distance in a living room. Although some Ballers will have huge mansions.

 

Some of you guys are pretty f*cked in the head.

 

I agree with each point with the exception of #2, in that our training incorporates and necessitates continual threat assessment to determine if deadly force is absolutely necessary. It is very possible to have been at the point of being able legally utilize deadly force but choosing other options to address a given threat. As we know, statistically speaking most officers will never fire their weapons for purposes other then training and dispatching animals over the course of their career - but that doesn't necessarily mean they aren't prepared to deal with threats and utilize deadly force if required, provided they engage in proper training on a regular basis to do so.

Regarding shooting under pressure, as has been said there simply is no method of preparation other then training under pressure. Though you can never truly simulate the threat of being killed, you can incorporate training regiments that impose physiological stresses so over time you react instinctively and instantaneously without having to think if you become involved in such an incident. As has been mentioned, relentless repetition with certain training is critical to making this possible. We actively train to be able to assess and fire under duress in just about any environment and circumstance likely to be encountered - day/night/weather/indoor/outdoor/physically tired/disabled...so that it doesn't change the end result - the ability to react. The most beneficial training program is one that incorporates these different elements as often as possible. Shooting only when you're required to qualify isn't going to make this happen.

Regarding low-light shooting situations, this study (though lengthy) provide some interesting statistical information from a law enforcement perspective and references actual incidents.

I will say that simunitions has bumped training up considerably in recent years, particularily with active shooter scenarios, four-man door stacks, etc. These are things that were not often taught 10-15 years ago, but are incorporated on a regular basis today.

 

I don't ever want to know if I could or not.

 

Thanks for that link, Chris. I'll forward that one on to the head goober, too.

Dustin, I train with a P226, and use an Airsoft replica for "in house practice". We do low/no light training drills in class, and do our quals in low light (20 rounds, so a mag change is necessary) @ 21'. Most of our students have never fired in low/no light before, and watching their reactions when they discover that they still maintain a decent accuracy (center mass) even when they can't see is pretty cool.