Consequences of the Madrid Bombing

If you go to war you need to know your enemy. We are fighting a religious war. We are not fighting all of Islam but it is a sect we are fighiting. They however are fighting all of Christendom with the usa as prime target. There are other groups fighting Jews with USA as secondary target.

Religious wars are religious wars no matter how much we say they arn't.

The ruling to kill the Americans and their allies--civilians and military--is an individual duty for every Muslim who can do it in any country in which it is possible to do it, in order to liberate the al-Aqsa Mosque and the holy mosque from their grip, and in order for their armies to move out of all the lands of Islam, defeated and unable to threaten any Muslim. This is in accordance with the words of Almighty God, "and fight the pagans all together as they fight you all together," and "fight them until there is no more tumult or oppression, and there prevail justice and faith in God."

This is in addition to the words of Almighty God "And why should ye not fight in the cause of God and of those who, being weak, are ill-treated and oppressed--women and children, whose cry is 'Our Lord, rescue us from this town, whose people are oppressors; and raise for us from thee one who will help!'"

We -- with God's help -- call on every Muslim who believes in God and wishes to be rewarded to comply with God's order to kill the Americans and plunder their money wherever and whenever they find it. We also call on Muslim ulema, leaders, youths, and soldiers to launch the raid on Satan's U.S. troops and the devil's supporters allying with them, and to displace those who are behind them so that they may learn a lesson.

Almighty God said "O ye who believe, give your response to God and His Apostle, when He calleth you to that which will give you life. And know that God cometh between a man and his heart, and that it is He to whom ye shall all be gathered."

Almighty God also says "O ye who believe, what is the matter with you, that when ye are asked to go forth in the cause of God, ye cling so heavily to the earth! Do ye prefer the life of this world to the hereafter? But little is the comfort of this life, as compared with the hereafter. Unless ye go forth, He will punish you with a grievous penalty, and put others in your place; but Him ye would not harm in the least. For God hath power over all things."

 

If they aren't caught then executions and trial don't matter. but the bullet in the head in a dark alley I mentioned would mean trials are unnecessary.

When Osama bin Laden is caught it will be because someone turned him in. And I'm saying detectives are better suited at that, to hunt down people hiding in a civilian population, than 'military intelligence' is.

For that matter I think characterizing this as a hunt for a bunch of criminals would have been more logical than having the world's only super power declare "war" on what may turn out to be several hundred core people armed with some explosives.

Wars end when all of the enemy forces are dead or they formally surrender. With Al Queda being decentralized, and perhaps new factions springing up in the future, there is a good chance that will never happen.

 

Maybe if Osama lived in Manhattan, it would be, but not in the mountains of Afghanistan. His followers will NEVER turn him over. That's is quite clear already. The locals won't cooperate with us either. They try to kill our personnel, in fact.

That means it's a job for the USMC. Kill anyone who resists.

As for it being a religious war: too late, it already is one. They consider this a Jihad, or Holy War, so our position on the subject doesn't really matter. We're IN a religious war, no matter if we agree or not.

Now as for the opinion of moderate muslims, frankly, I don't give a good shit what they think either. Really. Those folks have been painfully silent on the killing of innocent civilians by muslim radicals. As Mr. Bush said, you're either with us or against us. They need to make a decision as to which is more important to them: supporting fellow muslims (who also happen to be baby-killing terrorists) or supporting peaceful people of whatever religion. If they choose the former, then they're part of the problem and let the bombs rain down on them as well.

 

We will lose this war if Osama is successful in making it a religious war.

Don't fall into his trap MTK. we've got rise above the false notion that this is related directly to religion - it is a war of the Medevil (sp?) versus the Modern.

 

And where the Hell is Slow?? I almost miss him today.

 

These medieval surfs are flying planes. They use thier strikes to make money by selling short the day of the strike. They sure are under educated and medieval.

 

Sometimes I have to work so I can afford my expensive habits. On top of that I've had to do some logistical work to help Tom Doherty's family.

Anyway, it's hard to disagree with much said. I agree with you that we must not make this a religious war on our part. If radical Christian factions succeed in turning this into a Muslim vs. Christian conflict, I'll start blowing stuff in the US as well because as far as I will be concerned the Land of Liberty will have ceased to exist and I will be surrounded by enemies who deserve death for destroying it.

I think Robert is wrong because he's taking a narrow view that has proven to be a failure - we've tried criminal investigation and prosecution as the sole method in the past, and all we've really succeeded in doing is convicting the terrorist foot soldiers (not their leaders) after the fact. The leaders just recruit more foot soldiers, using the convicted ones as examples of martyrdom to the cause.

The answer is not solely one of military action though.

The effort must continue to be both military action and criminal investigation. It cannot be either/or. These are terrorists with machine guns, bombs, rockets, etc. They are well-organized and fanatical fighters. Dealing with them in that guise is not the job for civilian police. OTOH, their organization can be attacked with police methods for tracing funds and communications.

And occasionally, if we are truly serious about dealing with this issue, we will have to attack/invade the countries that support and fund terrorists, especially the ones that are symbols for terrorists to rally around.

Like Iraq.

 

One thing that we as a country must learn someday and never forget is that not everyone thinks the same as us or has the same moral set, values or ways of thinking. For example: the "evil" Far-Easterns (Japanese, Koreans, Vietcong, etc) and their treatment of POWs. While I personnelly hate the way they were treated, what Westerners fail to realize is that to those folks surrender is the ultimate dishonor, to them if you surrender you have given up on your country and rate somewhere below a dog. Why the heck would they feed, clothe, etc something lesser than a dog? To our way of thinking, they were evil. immoral, etc but to their way of thinking the POWs were pond-scum and were a waste. I'm not arguing which is right/wrong, just pointing out that we are different in most things. To many in the Middle-East, you have the same issue. They are different, they view things different. Curiously enough, both the Far East and Middle East had "Civiliation" long before the "West" ever did...

Some of the things that mtk said may strike you as the wrong thing based on Western values, but you have to fight, punish, etc them in ways they understand and fear. To coddle them like "good Christians" (which would be an oxymoron to them) would be viewed as weakness and an invitation for more of the same. Keep religion out of it (if that's even possible) and get Medivial on them! Know your enemy and use that knowledge to destory them, not try to change them. We Americans (from the highest level down) have a terrible time with getting to know and understand our enemies. We try to apply what they say/do to our values, ways, etc and that doesn't work.... Go bad ass or don't go at all....

 

You hear that MTK? You're are now a radical Christian!

 

wera176 got it exactly. The fact that they're muslim isn't the issue. The fact that their terrorist assholes IS the issue. If the moderate muslims of the world think that supporting terrorist assholes, who also happen to be muslim, is important simply because they share a common religious belief, then those folks are part of the problem.

There are radical Christian groups that think abortion is so wrong that it's somehow OK to blow up abortion clinics and murder doctors who perform them. Moderate Christians don't blindly support these folks because they share a common religion. Instead, they help prosecute them for their crimes if they can and at the very least, condemn their actions as the evil it is.

This is no different.

You're either part of the problem or part of the solution.

The terrorists have vowed to fight to the death to stop the infidels. So the only way this will end is with one side or the other being reduced to room temperature. My vote is for them to do all the dying. Wipe them from the face of the earth and the problem goes away.

We have no problem with muslims who actually follow their professed "Religion of Peace." However, those who follow the interpretation of Islam involving suicide bombings are a cancer upon humanity and need to be cut out and disposed of like any other tumor.

Break out the pliers and blowtorch....

 

If my views are Christian, they most certainly must be considered "radical."

Allow me to introduce you to the Sacrament of the Bisexual Female Twins....

 

Isn't it interesting how lately if you show passion or committment to any cause, like your country, you are a radical fundamentalist? What does that make everyone else? How did a vigorous belief system become extreme?

I bet Brad would have a good answer.

 

Always wanted to do that.

 

Islam, as practiced in much of the developing world, is the most effective weapon system ever utilized in asymmetrical warfare. It is unique among religions in it's ability to be manipulated by thugs to justify almost any atrocity in the minds of millions of disenfranchised youth, and to generate reliable suicide terrorists.

 

That, and gansta rap.

 

You lost me on this one Tom.

 

If I may speak for Tom, it goes like this: If I were a hopeless bored ticked off teenage boy with only hormones and cruddy surrounding to motivate me, and some guy said he had all the answers, I might be suseptible to a movement that promised excitement and a purpose, not to mention 72 dark eyed virgins in the end.














Oh - I thought you were questioning gangsta rap. Whoops.

Never mind.

 

read the above Fatwa.

 

Hardly. When it comes to religion, mtk and I attend the same church services.

My point was that there's no difference between whacko radical Muslims and whacko radical Christians. Both groups have a nasty tendency to plant bombs and kill people to advance their "cause." I will not willingly live in an environment controlled by either faction. If the war on terror becomes a religious war between radical Islam and radical Christianity, both sides must be exterminated.