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Consequences of the Madrid Bombing

Discussion in 'The Dungeon' started by I'm with Stupid, Mar 16, 2004.

  1. If the Madrid train bombings were carried out under the direction of Al Qaeda as is alleged, it appears to be quite clear that the goal was to influence this past weekend's elections in Spain.

    As a direct result of the bombing, the far Left PSOE Socialists beat out the incumbent moderate Partido Popular party, and there will now be a major shift in Spain's international policy. The PP was pro-US, and the PSOE is essentially anti-US. Spain was a big supporter of the US in regards to Iraq policy, and now they will join France and Germany as vehement objectors to US policies.

    So - if the attack was indeed an Al Qaeda effort, Al Qaeda has won a major battle in the War on Terrorism, despite the Spanish populace's protestations that terrorism would not cause them to change their way of life.

    Buoyed by their success, expect Al Qaeda to launch similar attacks against other US allies in Europe in an attempt to turn them against us as well.
     
  2. Joe Morris

    Joe Morris Off The Reservation

    But weren't ~80% of the Spanish populace against their governments support of the war? I remember thinking that it was political suicide. I'm sure the bombings played a part but I'm not sure if they really influenced the outcome. Then again, I haven't paid attention to Spain's politics since the pre-war support debates.
     
  3. ysr612

    ysr612 Well-Known Member

    even if there was only a swing of 15% they still won a great victory.
     
  4. A large majority of Spain's people were opposed to direct involvement in the Iraq war; however, that opposition was not expected to be a significant factor in the elections. The predictions were that the PP would handily defeat the PSOE.

    The election of PSOE candidates was a major upset, and is 100% a direct result of the bombing.
     
  5. blueduc37

    blueduc37 Well-Known Member

    Imagine if Al Qaeda decides that the way to get pacifist parties in power all over the world is to bomb them just before an election.
    If you were them, who would you want to win the election in this country in November? Will the new 9/11 be 10/11?

    What is really ironic is that the Fundamentalist Moslems are upset at our culture for poisoning their culture with MTV, etc. I'd bet that the huge majority of what they are mad about culturally is supported primarily by the left, and yet in order to get their desired governing body in power here they have to do something that would HELP the left.

    Did anyone notice after 9/11 that the message coming from the right did not change at all, but the message from the left either fell silent or started sounding more rightish? Have we forgotten so soon?

    I believe I'll sell off my stock holdings in September. The market always tanks when: 1) there is a bombing; 2) a liberal gets elected; 3) both.
     
  6. Team Atomic

    Team Atomic Go Go SOX!

    I think it too soon to tell, whether the attacks effected Spain's election. The war is VERY unpopular in europe. The socialist party ran an anti-war campaign and won the election.

    I said it before, Bush lost the diplomatic war well before the war ever started.

    Opinion polls showed as many as 90 percent of Spaniards opposed the Iraq war.
     
    Last edited: Mar 16, 2004
  7. Joe Morris

    Joe Morris Off The Reservation

    Just curious, and perhaps this is a tangential question, but where does the notion come from that the Democrats will not maintain our homeland security? The only issue that I see disagreement on is over the justification for the conflict in Iraq. Perhaps the means by which we protect the homeland is a bit of an issue but not the necessity or the imminent threat.
     
  8. blueduc37

    blueduc37 Well-Known Member

    Well, you're right, it is a bit an assumption. Mainly coming from Kerry saying his first step is to appologize, and the new Spanards pulling back. The left has typically been at least less vigorous in defense matters, and the current left view is more anti-Bush than pro-anything it seems. Kerry has consistantly voted against things military, and claims to be pro-UN. The UN will do nothing about terrorism, and if more governments fall or wilt under threat of terrorism, we will be increasingly alone in our fight. Kerry has said he thinks it wrong to go it alone.

    If it were me hiding in some cave somewhere, I'd rather be hiding from John Kerry, wouldn't you?
     
  9. Joe Morris

    Joe Morris Off The Reservation

    Perhaps we differ philosophically on some of these issues but I see your point. Its just been my observation that the staunch Republican pro-Bush seems to bring up this perceived weakness in the Democratic party. I actually think that homeland security, atleast where the threat and necessity are concerned, are shared by all Americans. Certainly foreign policy will change with a regime change.

    As far as the campaign strategy I agree with you. In alot of ways I think Bush is a very divisive character which seems to rub people different ways. I actually think you can run against that kind of President without ever presenting a policy -- and the Dems may just do that.
     
  10. blueduc37

    blueduc37 Well-Known Member

    I'm not super crazy about Bush, especially the way he spends. I have always to remeber that he has knowledge I don't. I do appreciate the low amount of spin that comes from the Whitehouse. The last one was the Tazmanian Devil...

    The election comes down to (for me) taxes, defense, foreign relations and personal character. Bush 4, Kerry 0. That's all.

    I do believe Bush is trying to do the right thing within the confines of the job. Not that he always does, but tries to. I don't think we needed a new buracracy (HS), or more federal spending on education or especially drugs. We need moral kids, able to think critically, and healthy adults - not more pills.

    I believe the left is generation of 60's communists, plain and simple. Communists are about power and that's all. I know it's an extreme view, but I bought a copy of the Communist Manifesto about 5 years ago. I could not find one point in it during the last election that Al Gore disagreed with.
     
  11. Joe Morris

    Joe Morris Off The Reservation

    YIKES! Maybe I need to read that (I just thought Gore was a dork for the whole "I invented the internet thing"). Can you send me your copy? I'm afraid the Man will be tracking me if I pick that up at Borders. ;)
     
  12. blueduc37

    blueduc37 Well-Known Member

    PM me your address.
     
  13. Shyster d'Oil

    Shyster d'Oil Gerard Frommage

  14. Shyster d'Oil

    Shyster d'Oil Gerard Frommage

    Blu, even nice guys like you can get addiscted to drugs - SO PLEASE STEP AWAY FROM THE CRACK PIPE!!!
     
  15. ysr612

    ysr612 Well-Known Member

  16. blueduc37

    blueduc37 Well-Known Member

    You just couldn't stay out of it could you Rodg?

    Now you've forced me....

    Of course Rodger would have the address to the Communist Manifesto!

    Sorry, you know I had to.
     
  17. Shyster d'Oil

    Shyster d'Oil Gerard Frommage

    Eat me, Comrade!
     
  18. blueduc37

    blueduc37 Well-Known Member

    You're not my type.
     
  19. HPPT

    HPPT !!!

    I think there is some confusion here. From everything I have heard in the last week (and believe me, it's all anybody has been talking about), the issue in the Spanish election was not so much the bombing itself as it was the government coverup that followed. The prime minister and all government officials staunchly denied any involvement by radical Islamists and tried to pin the responsibility on ETA. Two days after the bombing, they were still making speeches on TV claiming the same thing. Then the people found out that the government had had evidence from day one of the contrary. There was the small van containing leftover detonators and pro Islamic materials. That was followed by a denial from ETA. Then a second one. There was a fax from Al Qaeda claiming responsibility. Followed by a tape. Despite all that, the government maintained its position until things blew up on Saturday. On Sunday, the Socialists were probably the most shocked by the results. The election had been turned into a referendum. The people don't care so much for the Socialists as they want to punish the outgoing government for lying. That said, it is true that the vast majority of the population was strongly opposed to the country's involvement in Iraq. But based on prior polls, that was not enough to oust the majority party.

    The lesson to learn here is that an administration caught in a lie can be held accountable for it.
     
  20. blueduc37

    blueduc37 Well-Known Member

    They should've brought in James Carville!
     

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