Bitchin' Soldiers?

Ok this is for Prior service & Active Duty guys/gals.

I just watched a bit on the News about 3rd ID troops griping about being in Iraq so long and I'm kinda pissed.
I can understand if they are ready to go home. BUT don't they realize that real war isn't a 30 day NTC rotation? And that them and their families airing their gripes in public only hurts morale on the homefront and gives ammo to the Baathist Iraqis?

 

You did not say bore them to death with a lecture at reveille. This is the steps I would take if I were thier CO

 

Well, I don't meet the criteria but will give my 0.02 anyway. It's the BBS you know.

I'm still concerned about all the sniping lately seems our troops still are targets. I can understand wanting to go home after a stint but I don't think that worked well in Vietnam as the troops just counted their days. It's a big moral problem no matter what.

I do think that it will lead to some homefront push to bring the troops back earlier than planned or required. Which would seem be the gameplan for all the single sniping/attacks.

David

 

If I could only say what I wanted to... but for what I can say, these guys complaining are the ones that expect to have everything handed to them and not work for it, they would not have lasted 1 day in a real war like vietnam or korea, or either of the WW's.... it's pityful really..... I ran across this article today, and it is the first one I have found about a soldier who actually wasn't complaining, and it's sad that he had to die for his voice to be heard..... If there were more men like him, we would be in really good shape...http://www.sunspot.net/news/nationw...jul17,0,3989932.story?coll=bal-home-headlines

 

Guys have always bitched and moaned when stuck in a sh&t-hole for an extended period of time. They rarely have a massive press presence eager to document it.

 

They are troops. They are in a combat situation.
They should shut the hell up and take it ! As long as
they are in the " ARMY ", I'm afraid this is the way it goes.
When my wife went into the last combat zone, ie Gulf War ( 1)
you should have heard her tell of all the gripping and crying about this and that blah blah blah ! Well ! Whay did you join
an Army ? It could happen at any time. This was her
typical resopnse. ( I'm very proud of my wifes tour of
duty. She did her job and all she was told to do and
got thru it and came home. She has her medals and ribbons
all that , the things she can be proud of. )
She was dedicated to the task. She was a real trooper.

 

people complain all the time lots of complaining in RVN as well. If you made and fool of yourself in front of the press you would have been subject to anything from a verbal reprimand to a written one to and article 15.

 

I didn't vote 'cause I'm not prior service in anything but the weather underground and i don't want to screw up the poll, but here goes:

Give the gripers a break!! They are fighting and dying over there. Isn't griping not only theraputic but a time honored tradition in the military?

And tcassby, you want to hear griping? See if you can get some VN War newsreals. Those guys bitched up a storm!!

Is it possible that the Bush administration could be politically motivated to shut up the troops?

R.

 

If someone didn't complain about being in a place where friends were getting shot, maimed and killed, I would worry about them.

 

Sure all soldiers gripe. But keep in mind that there are over a 100,000 US troops in Iraq right now, that "only" 150 have been killed in combat is amazing. Most of our guys are going about there missions and never get shot at. Most are probably bored to tears and tired of the sand and heat.
They are trained to NEVER say some of the things I have heard in the media. Now some of it I understand is second hand from wives and girlfriends and someone needs to talk to them about it.
But there was no excuse for what those guys said during the interview, it was at the bare minumum unprofessional ("waa waa They said I could leave now and I wanna go home!"). The enlisted guys probably won't get busted, but I bet a few officers OERs arn't going to look to rosy over this...

Complaining to the media isn't going to get them home sooner...

 

The romanticized notion of 'keeping a stiff upper lip' pretty much became extinct the moment tv crews starting providing nightly frontline coverage back in the 60s.

Harmless bitching is just that..

 

Soldiers, Marines, Sailors, and Airmen have always complained about their respective situations. Goes with the territory. But, until now you didn't have a thousand camera's and microphones in your face every where you went. If instant media was around during WWII you might have seen the same thing.

 

one little aside the UCMJ is likely the most fair set of laws anyone in the states is ever going to face. And it is the most justly administered.

 

Yup, but now a days we get "media relations training" beat into us every field problem (and because of this shit we are probably going to start getting double helpings . )
All you are supposed to say is what your nominal mission is, where you are from, and stay positive. Anything else you are supposed defer to the PAO.
These guys should have known better.

 

yeah, but do you see them doing anything about it???? have you seen the first article proclaiming anyone was prosecuted for bitching???? NO!!! that's what I thought!!!

 

Greeson 1, Doyle 0. Sort of. . . i feared the worst about this war going in. had Saddam's forces been properly organized it would have been Armageddon. Greeson said no way, we'll roll over them. I hoped we would but like i said, we had to prepare for upwards of 5,000 KIA if we met stiff resisitance. i'm glad Greeson's estimate was more accurate.

Rodger

 

Naw, even if the Iraqis had been trained up the US standards and had used chemical weapons, we still would have cleaned their clocks. Our equipment is just that much better.

I think that this is how Saddam and Co. expected and planned it to go down. The Iraqis (or thier French & Russian advisors) knew there was no way they could win against us in a stand up fight. So they looked at the history books and turned to the Vietnam chapter.
They threw their regular Army and even the not quite loyal enough Republican Guard to get slaughtered (and eliminated from the "post war" picture). And went to ground with their hard core loyalists to conduct a gurrilla war and try to out wait us. They already know that much of the world's "opinion" was against us and that the American people have little stomach for long low intensity wars.
Remember, Saddam (or I guess probably his boys now) are intensely self-centered. They have nothing else to do except try to regain their control over the country, even if it takes the next 20 years.

 

Bitching is normal. It's always been there. Media access new. The "fast-food" mentality of today's people is new. "Are we there yet?"

"Yup, but now a days we get "media relations training" beat into us every field problem (and because of this shit we are probably going to start getting double helpings . )"

"All you are supposed to say is what your nominal mission is, where you are from, and stay positive. Anything else you are supposed defer to the PAO. These guys should have known better."

Maybe the Code of Conduct needs to be revised, forbiding giving solace to the media instead of the enemy. Is that where we need to go?

Nope. The responsibility rests with the American people to sort the BS out of the real and deal with it. All this "media relations training" is, is avoidance. It minimizes the inconvenience for the military having to explain why little Jimmy got sand in his C-Rat's. Too damn bad.

Global information is a fact of the real world now. If the people of this nation can't suck it up and get past the whiners the media will ALWAYS focus on...then we have no business leading anything.... let alone the world. Let's hope we are better than that.

 

But civilians (Including the media) don't understand, hell can't comprehend, what its like and have no frame of reference, so when they hear a soldier bitching about how they were told they would be going home last week, or that they were tired of the Iraqis shooting at them, they think, "Oh no, all is lost! Our army is about to collapse!"

Its controlling that perception is what the media guidelines is all about. Call it spin if you want to, but the press has become just another part of the battlefield.

 

What "what its like" are you talking about? This "frame of reference" is that the blue pill they give you at boot camp?

Nope, we civilians could never understand being someplace where we were in danger, "grave danger, is there any other kind?" and not wanting to be be there.

And the media, aren't some of the media over there with the units?

David

David