Another Boeing 737 Max-8 crash

Discussion in 'General' started by SPL170db, Mar 10, 2019.

  1. MGM

    MGM Well-Known Member

    The accident rate is still EXTREMELY low. When you look at the rate of the 727, it is artificially high due to the learning curve of jet aircraft. The 707/DC-8/727 were really the first gen and where the industry cut it’s teeth.

    I find it interesting that Airbus and Boeing have developed all the fly by wire tech to mitigate the threat of stalls (not the main reason for fly by wire, but an added bonus). However-the accident rate where stalls were a factor on the 727/Classic 747/Classic 737 is almost zero. I would suggest that training is the best defense, not technology.
    Gino230 likes this.
  2. speedluvn

    speedluvn Man card Issuer

  3. SPL170db

    SPL170db Trackday winner

    Definitely proper training is paramount. I've watched that Air Disasters show for years and the number of accidents that were the result of pilot error is quite a bit. And alot of those pilot errors were the pilots not being properly trained on scenarios that are documented and detailed on how to respond to appropriately.
  4. Gino230

    Gino230 Well-Known Member

    My initial take is that there are basically two narrow body jets for sale in the world- the Airbus 320 series, and the 737. So you have a high chance of any narrow body crash (of a new-ish type airplane) being one of the two types. I truly hope they find some data recorders, from the looks of the one photo that thing went straight in at high speed. There's not going to be much left.
  5. Banditracer

    Banditracer Dogs - because people suck

    I've watched alot of those too. Saw one the other night where the pilot shut off the low altitude alarm that was going off and they flew into a mountain at 250 mph.
  6. Gino230

    Gino230 Well-Known Member

    I would definitely be nervous flying foreign carriers (outside of Western Europe) for this exact reason. On top of that, they are hiring expats from many countries, so you might have a British Captain with a low time Nigerian First Officer who is just happy to be there. What do you think the likelihood of him speaking up if the Captain is making an error?

    In the US, we have come a long way. I believe Pan Am lost 8 707's within a 7 or 8 year period, because those old Captains that came up on the flying boats were not willing to listen to any damn co-pilot, and they all had their own way of flying. Some of them wouldn't even use checklists. Thank god we have evolved, and learned alot of lessons between now and then.

    Look at the AeroMexico connect crash within the last year- the Captain let one of his buddies who was a light airplane pilot, ZERO jet time, fly the takeoff, while the First Officer rode the Jumpseat! They got into a wind shear at takeoff and crashed. That would be like if @ChemGuy was on one of my flights and despite the shitty weather and high risk takeoff, and the fact that he's never flown a 737, we let him fly the plane full of passengers? You can't even make up a level of stupid that is that high. And that's coming from a guy that has learned to give other crews the benefit of the doubt- nobody comes to work saying "I'm gonna crash today!" (Except the Egypt Air 990 First Officer).

    Overall I still think air travel is very safe, even outside the US. But we are really in a strange time where there are just not enough experienced, qualified pilots to go around and standards are falling, it's going to have an effect. Lion Air would never have happened on a US carrier. Not that we are immune to errors or bad judgment, but it's a combination of factors to make the accident happen, and in the US that chain would have been broken.
    The Beer Hunter likes this.
  7. ChemGuy

    ChemGuy Harden The F%@# Up!

    Sky Gods....yeah a swept wing jet isn't quite the same as a B29 or Connie.

    I have lots of 737 time....from the jump seat a few rows behind you. I also have had the pleasure of throwing up on 2 different WN 737s in my sales flying days
    So let me know when you need some help, I'll bring a shirt with like 9 stripe epaulets......
    Gino230 likes this.
  8. Gino230

    Gino230 Well-Known Member

    were you in those rear facing seats by any chance? Thank god we got rid of those!
  9. ChemGuy

    ChemGuy Harden The F%@# Up!

    I rode those before. I liked em
  10. Monsterdood

    Monsterdood Well-Known Member

    FAA is directing immediate updates. “Boeing is working to complete “flight control system enhancements, which provide reduced reliance on procedures associated with required pilot memory items””

    Reduced reliance on procedures and training is the right approach. It’s all about pilot workload and aircraft behavior that is predictable and understandable without having to train and recall many nuances.
    RichB likes this.
  11. TWF2

    TWF2 2 heads are better than 1

    There was guy today on TV from FAA or some expert, did not catch that part. If what he say is thru it may fall on Boeing.
    He said in order to get better milage and fuel economy they put bigger engines on this planes. This engines are bigger in diameter and to get required ground clearance they moved them up and forward on wings (instead of redesigning whole plane). This causes high pitch on take offs and to deal with that they added all this electronics.
  12. Captain Morgan

    Captain Morgan Well-Known Member

    I have 4 flights in Central America in the nexts 2 weeks, 20 hours of van/bus rides, and 400 nautical miles of Panga/ boat rides on both coasts. It really sucks to be on that "one" wrong flight. Doubt the Beeb will solve it, Bad luck/ fate, and a little maintenance/ pilot error?????
  13. speedluvn

    speedluvn Man card Issuer

    Trust me it sucks having just a wee bit of knowledge on safety related subjects. When I fly I've found that you have to trust in the crew, to include ground crews, to do their jobs to the best of their ability. If all else fails, have several drinks before, during and if necessary, after the flight.
  14. Captain Morgan

    Captain Morgan Well-Known Member

    I'll remain calm and ignorantly stupid with my mini rum bottles, I actually like a little bit of turbulence as long as we don't crash. Keeps things interesting. Always love when people "wish you a safe flight"? What the fuck can I do except sit in my chair and hope to be in the 99%, but have taken a lot of bush planes in Alaska, the odds are slightly down.
  15. SPL170db

    SPL170db Trackday winner

    An old boss of mine was a commercial airline pilot when he was younger before health issues forced him to step down.....the stories he's told me, yeah I'd agree.
  16. speedluvn

    speedluvn Man card Issuer

    When it's all said and done this is what it boils down to. :beer:
  17. SPL170db

    SPL170db Trackday winner

    Well, it looks like there's some serious repercussions coming as a result of this latest incident. Both the UK and Australia have BANNED the aircraft from flying into or out of their respective airspaces. I haven't seen a grounding like this in quite some time.
  18. Booger

    Booger Well-Known Member

    One of my Marine buddies is now a maintenance supervisor for SW Airlines. He’s told me some crazy stories about fuckups by the techs, but they generally get caught by the multiple eyeballs. All in all they have top notch folks that take their jobs seriously. I know my buddy Curtis does, he is a squared away dude that makes sure the plane is safe to fly.
    speedluvn likes this.
  19. Mongo

    Mongo Administrator

    You don't get stories out of millions of miles of totally safe boring flight :D
  20. Gino230

    Gino230 Well-Known Member

    Another incident regarding foreign pilots:

    Both pilots left the controls! Nice Job, India.

    Forbes is reporting that the FO on the Ethiopian crash had 200 hours Total Time. A 200 hour pilot is going to have alot of trouble keeping a transport category jet straight and level while hand flying, let alone handling a complicated inflight emergency. The Captain supposedly had 8,000 hours, but he's only 29 and he was their "senior check pilot"??
    The Beer Hunter and MGM like this.

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