Another 350gp questions

sirs...once again my opnion:

Add a couple to "Mods allowed" list:

1. Conversion to roller neck bearings.

2. Removal of "street oriented" tabs and brackets.


I think the front end stuff is fine.

I think the brakes are fine.


Maybe add to limitations in the index rule, for future reference, and to avoid this confusion again:

1. OEM, Honda twin, non-braced or gussetted frame and swingarm

another opnion, like I think Jack said, neck bearings are done on 95% of CB's....its common....

Not an intentional JoeC, just conversing...but how many stock CB350's do you see with swingarm roller bearings? Thats just my train of thought as it applies to this class. I'd bet there are a few V1 bikes with swingarm rollers.....anyone?

In my mind Joe, you have built a "true racebike", and I'm impressed, it looks great:up: ....but I wouldnt call it stock, would you?....really?

I appreciate the opportunity to provide input here Mongo:up:

 

Yeah Jack, I was gonna include that reminder to....even copied it but never pasted it.....

Thanx Sean.

 

Seems to be true to the original intentions as described to me

Charlie seems to have a reasonable set of details to clean up any vagueness that we are dealing with in the indexing of the CB350. I can live with these stipulations and see why the line is drawn where it is. Safety is one of the biggest factors that I believe is included in his stipulations. As many of the original welds are mechanical spot welds, they would be tough to recreate without breaking apart the frame to clean metal prior to welding.

Charlie's diagram makes this very evident. Charlie's recommended solution comes from awareness of both the technique and need to do accordingly.

I concur.

I would also look for agreement that there is a significant difference between adding welding rod material and adding additional steel plates with a welding rod.

 

Thanx Jack.

 

i would say my bike could seriously straddle the line between stock gp and v1 from an interpretation point of view. no, it is not stock in the true sense. when i think stock, i think ahrmas historic proddy. as there was never a clear statement before about it, i built the bike the way i felt was ok. like i said, its not like it hadnt been hashed over a million times before here. i built it knowing that. before now, it seemed the question had come up, and there was no definitive answer. just a bunch of banter. as far as i was concerned, using my prior experience, ie running a braced frame in gp with chris m's bike for an entire season, i had no issues building my bike the same basic way. i didnt want to drag them into it, but i had chris' input as well as bucky s'.

the issue isnt how many people have swing arm needle bearings, the issue is i have them right now. people dont have powder coated frames, but i have one. I guess just the frame coating would be considered illegal. i mean if youre going to split hairs. i figured if we're going to talk about it, i might as well throw it all out there. i mean, im not trying to hide anything. i also have shock mount needle bearings in the works. is that also going to be illegal? it didnt come one the frame. but neither did the works shocks eh? if i have to build a v1 motor for 09 i will but theres no time or money for that now.

i just dont see that bracing a frame, makes that much of a difference with a stock motor. tim tilghman ran 138's at summit on his completely unbraced frame. tex has done it on his. chris rode his bike for all it was worth and did a couple of them with a stocker motor in his braced frame. a few of them. and look at dean, the guy is stupid fast. my bike may weigh 30lbs less, but theres no way im keeping up with him. well, not yet. and id say just straight bracing, as in added metal, not welded seams, probably most of the bikes out there arent. as a guess. im just using your sa bearing line of thought. id say half the bikes have some kind of bracing, probably half are welded up, and the rest have been barely touched.

the rules should read as charley says though. that answers the questions. that would have made it perfectly clear. that is what was asked for and about over and over. before i even started my frame.

my bike did turn out nicely. im very proud of it as its the first real bike ive built from the ground up. its still got a lot of kinks to work out. but thanks for the compliment. and honestly, i put waay too much time and money into it. id do it again, because i love the way it turned out, but its just a little too much for a stocker. and there are guys handing my ass to me on real stockers!

i think running a "stock" class is a tough thing to govern. i think it needs to have very defined rules to prevent conversations like this from happening. or issues like this from arising at the track. not that this is bad. one good thing about letting a braced frame run is a v1 bike that grenades mid season can have a stock motor thrown in it and run in gp for the rest of the year competitively. just something to consider. or for that matter the following season. like weve been doing with chris' old chasis.

jc

 

Another MOD ALLOWED addition....

About carbs:

Jets may be changed and chokes removed.

 

Heres my input.

Removing exscess brackets and mounting pionts OK, (Frame is cleaner minimal performance improvement)
Rewelding of existing welds to add strength OK, I see this a saftey improvement.
Welded repiars to frame that does not add bracing OK, Many of the old frames we find have some rust issues on the bottem of the frame.
Use of needle bearings in steering neck OK, These are readily avialable and easy to install. ( Haven't looked for OEM ball bearings but that would be a pain) This change provide only a nominal performance improvement if any.


Other mods I see as debatable and you are the correct crowd to do the debating!!


When does the beer drinking start.

Oops to late it started!

Tex: You are late of the start line on the beer drinking the green flag has already dropped.

Charlie: seeing as you quit drinking you are now designated driver. I am designated drinker.

Keith

 

I concur

I concur

 

at least there is something legal on my bike!!!

jc

 

Feelin your anguish

Joec,

I guess its procrastination that has kept me from revving up the GP350 CB350 modifier on my race bike. And the fact that I spent some time on a GP500 GS450. NO SUCH MONSTER, just a typo.
That, and when I saw the ambguity that you just mentioned in the rules and what was being run, I figured I'd run with what I had the way it was until it clears up.

So, for me "put off" means not having to "take off".
I hear your pain and appreciate your open honesty.
I also hope we can get to an easy to draw line of dos and don'ts.

FYI, I don't think there is a single SE cb350 that could be considered braced.
They all do seem to come form the land of colder weather.
Having moved from Chicago to Atlanta, I can see where a Mason-Dixon bracing clause may be required. Or, call it the freeze line effect.

Let's have fun on the track!


GET THAT VINTAGE BIKE BACK ON THE TRACK AND HAVE A GREAT TIME!

[email protected]
www.siriusconinc.com

 

Well said JoeC....you make some points, you allways have.

IMO, comparing powdercoating a frame to fitting needle bearings in a bushed swingarm is a stretch...but thay are both variables.....I see one as a purely cosmetic enhancement, and the other as purely a performance enhancement....and I guess I'm focusing on the performance part.

All I'm kinda saying is Joe.....the rules need to be for a class of bike, a majority...and the majority dont have your swingarm set-up....just the facts sir.

If WERA cared what our bikes looked like, Me, Jack, and Keith would have been booted already!:up: Your ride looks like a racebike....no BS...I look forward to racing you on it.

Another couple MOD ALLOWED: Electric Starter removal ,any "stock style" hydraulic shocks.

MONGO...not trying to shout with the bolds, just trying to make it an easy read.....If you would like, I'll clean this up and make a list.

 

I concur with the rewelded spot welds / repaired [rusty] lower frame loops on the oem frame, removed street oriented tabs and brackets including centerstand brackets, roller steering head bearings ok-don't care about needle swingarm bearings one way or another; oem carbs can have the troublesome chokes removed, forks and brake rules ok the way they are.

 

you havent seen tex's bike! that thing is ugly. and chris' bike i rode for the past year literally still had mouse turds on the motor from sitting in my garage for like 3 years. chris won the 350gp race he entered on it last year. rope was a no show that weekend!

no most people dont have that mod, nor will they do it. i just did it because i had a machinist at my disposal to walk me through the process and for just about 40 bucks in materials, i had new bushings, bearings, whatever. and i got a good lesson in using the metal lathe!

guess we'll only be racin if were actually entered in the same class.....hmmm.....

ill be at summit, and vir.

jc

 

Summit 9-20 will see the whole Southeastern GP350 contingent that will by that time have grown to 68 racers all with back up race bikes, but none will be reinforced, braced or needle bearinged.
Actually looks like Me, Keith, Charlie and that slow poke Dean. Maybe even the new guys on the grind like Charly, Brad and Kirk will be there too.
Seems when we travel outsinde our circle of fame, we have to bring our own audience.
I'm hoping to be there April 19th with my son and brother and nephews. Remember that need for audience in tow.
VIR... I wanna be there.

 

now thats awesome! the grid os going to be huuuuge!


jc

 

This is almost too good for a lawyer to pass up the opportunity to argue . . . .

If the topic were anything except Honda 350's . . . .

 

:up:

 

david,

i was beginning to question why i was still paying your retainer....but finally you spoke and cleared this mess up succinctly with so few words. thank you!

tex

 

ok, if i put my turn signals back on, can run with the gp boys??

jc

 

that's funny.

texy