Yes, a 650 should be far better than the 350s bumping up. "Bumping up" being the key word here. It's a 500 class that 650s have been indexed into. So the argument shouldn't be if a 650 belongs in a race with 350s.
They are a class of their own....that never shows up....at least with WERA. What about a more realistic bike, like the B50?...good fit, meets the criteria...not indexed. HEY, I just noticed Roys sidevalve would run in 500GP....cool!
See that raises the question, should the rules reflect what people want to race or what we wish showed up? My thinking is the Honda 350 twin breathed life into the 350 and 500 gp classes because they are readily available and are reliable and inexpensive. Read the 350GP rules and then look at what shows up. The XS650 shares those same qualities in a larger package. Some have made the argument that there is already a class for it, V3. There was already a class for the Honda's as well, V1. Big difference in costs. OK, the B50, I'd say a Grand Prix kitted B50 leaves a stock XS in it's wake. Much lighter and similar power. A lot pricier too. http://www.worksperformance.com/html/customers/brid_caveney.html
Going to have to explain what you're talking about because I'm not seeing anything that shows an XS650 and the allowed Triumphs are the same... Especially when you pull up dirt track stuff that has nothing to do with the reality of a street bike or a roadrace bike given the rules they had.
Well the dirt track is where the bikes mentioned did most of their racing. It's a lot more evidence of their parity than any evidence shown here to the contrary. Can anyone present concrete evidence that an XS650 is inherently superior to a British twin on the street or road course? To just state the technical differences in the designs proves nothing.
Are you saying, all else configured the same, that a pushrod motor and OHC motor are the same?....no difference?
I see a lot of HD's listed, can you be more specific and show where the bikes we're talking about competed and were equal? I'm seeing the bikes/riders who won championships and that doesn't tell me anything at all. Basically I'm still not sure what your link is supposed to show. As for the tech differences - they are important in my job. They do show that one machines definitely will make more power with the same displacement as the others. They show one bike should be faster than the others. I haven't seen anything yet to disprove that but I'm more than willing to keep looking at information. FWIW - I'm not trying to bust your balls, I really am somehow missing your point so I'm looking for clarification.
CY, I am saying that having an OHC Vs. pushrods does not mean more power. It might mean more potential but even that is not always born out in reality. How is it those push rod 750 Harleys beat all those OHC bikes? Go figure. How many times has Tim Joyce and Ryan Ambrose beaten OHC Yamahas? Those bikes are making comparable horsepower to the Yamahas in their class if not more.
FWIW....I AM trying to bust his balls. ....sorry, I couldnt resist....it was just sittin out there...waiting.... I keed I keed......brad is always good for some chatter.:up: .... How you gonna put a 4 spd in that thing Brad?.....I dont doubt Roy could do it.:up: Why not try for V2 brad....you may have a chance.
No offense taken Sean. I was showing you this: 1974Kenny ROBERTS (Yamaha) 1973 Kenny ROBERTS (Yamaha) 1972 Mark BRELSFORD (Harley-Davidson) 1971 Dick MANN (BSA) 1970 Gene ROMERO (Triumph) 1969 Mert LAWWILL (Harley-Davidson) 1968 Gary NIXON (Triumph) 1967 Gary NIXON (Triumph) The XS1 made its debut in late '69 as a 70 model and it took them years to make it competitive with the Brits and Americans. I don't have them at my disposal but period magazine road test show no advantage to the Yamaha in speed.
I may be wrong so maybe Chuck can chime in and set the record straight but hasn't he run the same Triumph in WERA 500gp that he won the AHRMA Prod. HW title on? I thought it was the same bike. Might not be.
He ran a 500 at one time.....I dont know.....couple years back at Road Atl we had a great run in V1.:up: ...he hurt her bad.
Agreed, but if you are comparing their full-tilt racebikes to your stocker, I'm not getting it. I wouldnt doubt Roys XS has more.....?????
I am comparing their full tilt Triumphs to full tilt Yamahas. The point is, the push rods seem to be quite competitive with the cammers. What evidence has anyone presented to show that the stock XS holds a clear advantage in speed over a stock T120? Just reading off the technical specs is not proof of any performance advantage. Are you saying that the triumphs and yamahas are comparabe in highly modified form yet not in stock form?
