Baby toy haulers. Yay or nay

Shoulda bought a Taco.....oh wait

 

hello...joined this forum so I can pick your brain regarding an atc 8.5x20 TH.

firstly, prices seem to have drastically increased since you bought yours. I have spoken to several dealers and for a reasonably optioned unit, the best deal I can get is about $44K. For a fully optioned unit, they are asking around $50K. Have you seen many changes to justify this price increase? From my perspective, it seems they haven’t changed that much.

secondly, how does this compare to a travel trailer of the same size, in regards to camping? I know it won’t be set up as well as one made strictly for camping, but will there be that big of a difference? It seems with a queen size happijak bed and dinette/sleeper conversion it should be able to sleep 4 reasonably well (myself and 3 kids).

lastly, my tow vehicle is a 2015 Sequoia. It has the 5.7 (same as tundra) with tow. I expect that I will use it mainly for camping, but would like to have the capability to bring a couple motorcycles or my Kawasaki mule (should just fit). So top dry weight should be near 7500 lbs with the mule. I don’t expect to take the mule too often or very far. Do you think I will have enough tow vehicle?

I would appreciate any help or advice you or anyone can offer.

Thank you.

 

Yes, prices how gone up quite a bit over the last few years. Some of the changes have been a great additional value, others not so much. One big change was the reconfiguration of the kitchen setup to include a much larger sink and faucet. The setup in mine is VERY small and is difficult to do anything worthwhile in, especially cleaning any larger pots/pans, plus the position against the wall of the fridge make maneuvering a bit of a hassle. ALL units now have an extra 6" of interior height, going from 7' to 7'6", which makes a huge difference for those towing larger toys and opening up the space. Also makes it easier for taller folks to avoid hitting any of the upper cabinetry. The standard insulation is now upgraded. Other things like the larger windows I'm not as big a fan of, especially on the smallest unit, like mine.

IMHO, it's a perfect camping trailer. I don't think we give up anything on amenities, and as you said between the queen happijac, the fold-down dinette, and also the fold down couch, myself, the wife, and two kids are perfectly comfortable. Any 20' trailer is going to feel a little cramped if you are staying in it all the time (we've had rainout weekends where we wished we had something larger), but the whole point isn't to stay in the trailer all the time. Every trailer is going to have pros/cons, but I think ours is the best setup for what we wanted.

For your Sequoia.......will it do the job? Yes.

Will it do the job and stay within reasonable margins of the SUV's performance and towing limitations? That's where you could be struggling.

A quick lookup says your Toyota will indeed tow up to 7,400 lbs, but it also has only 1,350 lbs. of payload. Completely dry this model trailer puts about 750 lbs. on the hitch. Fully loaded for a weekend and with a decent amount of water in the holding tank (which holds an amazing 100 gallons), and that quickly approaches 1,000 lbs. That would leave you only 350 lbs. of wiggle room with passengers, cargo, etc. That's not even taking into account what your axles are rated for in that vehicle (you can look at your door-jamb sticker to find out).

With my 2015 F150 V8, I'm well withing the tow rating of 10K lbs., 2,000 lbs payload, and even over the scales with a fully loaded trailer and truck I'm still well shy of the max axle ratings using a properly set up WD hitch.

My advice, if you happen to have a Facebook account go ahead and join the "ATC Toy Hauler Owners" group. Lots of info to find there, not to mention frequent listing of used units that have much more palatable prices.

 

Thank you so much for your detailed response. That’s good to hear that you do not feel the family camping experience has been diminished (for a 20 foot trailer), when compared to a travel trailer. This was my primary concern.

It seems I will be approaching the limit for my sequoia, at least for the times when I have the trailer fully loaded… But I expect this to be rare and for short distances only. The tongue weight is the main concern...I may have to get a good hitch for it. I have towed a 25’ boat with the sequoia that likely reached 5000 lbs. it did ok with it but I did have significant “squat” and gas mileage wasn’t good once I hit 70 mph.

Thank you again, it is really appreciated.

 

Thanks for that, guys. I have a 2010 Sequoia and I’ve also been looking at the ATCs. I wish they still made the 7’ wide models.

 

Lately, my talk of giving up on production toy haulers has reversed course. I re-found a 5th wheel brand I had previously dismissed due to weight considerations, they make a "lightweight" version now. (Still too much for my '02 dually.) Grand Designs Momentum G-class, particularly, the 350G.


I'd like to get a new truck so that opens the possibility of towing another 3000lbs on top of the G-class and that means I could be looking at Momentum's M-class 381M.


Outstanding, but I too have yet won the lottery.

 

When you put on a load distribution hitch, it is amazing how much that helps with the squat. You can attach bars on each side, on my version with a chain that we put on the 5th or 6th chain link, and then wind up the front nose wheel and it puts the load onto the truck.

If you wind up the nose wheel first, you really have to strain to muscle up the weight distribution bars on each side. On my work F350 Dually I did't even need to use the weight distribution hitch. However on my old F250 or GMC 2500 I had to use the weight distribution bars.

 

I'm in the market for a small toy hauler 25' or less. All y'all that posted up with stuff, lemme know if it's still on the market. Thanks

 

Grand Design was purchased by Winnebago in 2016. Hopefully that hasn’t hurt the quality.

 

Hope not. They still have their industry-leading 3 year warranty so...at least there's that. Prior to that, it was Jayco's 2 year warranty that lead the field. Interestingly, Grand Design wants its customers to use their products full-time...no one else will warranty full-time use, i.e., you live in it as your primary domicile. That seems significant.

 

http://www.drvsuites.com/full-house-luxury-fifth-wheel-toy-haulers/floor-plans.html

 

What size generator is everyone using to power their toy haulers?

We just bought a 19' Coachmen and I'm looking for an inverter generator that will be able to power the A/C (13500 BTU), the fridge and a single set of warmers during the day.

From the research I've done, most generators in the 3000-3500 watt range will start and run the a/c but there is not much mention of what else is running simultaneously.

I seem to recall a lot of 3500 watt generators powering RVs and warmers at Tally in February but I highly doubt anyone was running the A/C.

 

My 2 cents....get a 3000 watt inverter like a Honda or Yamaha quality for the RV and one of these for your warmers.

https://www.amazon.com/Pulsar-Gas-P...4490-a794-9cd9552ac58d&tag=aimassociatesbp-20

Don't chance the AC kickin' in to overload your RV's genny, then the breaker goes off and your warmers are not heating your tires. That happened to me first time out on my new (to me) R6 at Summit point in '14.

Didn't know I went out on cold tires because I took my warmers off with my gloves on first session. Got to T5 and the front went away on me. Talk about a sh*t your pants moment!

I've got a Yamaha 4500 for my 5th wheel now, but I'll still tote around my Pulsar for my warmers to run just during the day while I need my tires heated. I feel like it's cheap insurance against that T5 experience again.

And the Pulsar is quiet as a mouse, too.

 

Harbor Freight/Northern Tool 3000w runs my A/C and a set of warmers no problem. We leave the fridge on propane a lot but I think a few times it was set to Auto and was fine. I couldn't justify the price for a new Honda or Yamaha

We also have a Coachmen with a 13.5k BTU A/C. Which unit did you get?

 

Were you saying DRV's warranty covers full-time use? For the money, I wouldn't doubt it, but that should include the land it's gonna sit on, too. $$$$$$

 

Knock on wood, but my Predator 3500 has been flawless. The included battery is junk but still starts on a single pull and is nearly as quiet as my Honda 2000.

I will second @D-Zum 's comment to not risk overloading it........know your appliance loads, especially if it involves your safety.

Most all RV' refrigerators require next to no draw on 110v, and if you want to just run it off the house batteries they sip propane too. Then you just have to keep the batteries charged.

 

Oh yeah, they're 3500's. I accidently said 3000 in my post. I have the Northern Tool version, Power Horse. Runs all night and into the morning on 1 tank with the A/C compressor running non-stop.

I have never been able to get mine to turn over a single time with that stupid battery....

 

I decided to kick the can of my trailer purchase down the road a year, but when the time comes I'm super keen on this floorplan: https://coachmenrv.com/toy-haulers/adrenaline/21LT/5326



Heck of a lot of utility in such a short trailer. They pretty much stole the floorplan from Grand Designs, but that line is too rich for my blood.

 

Looks nice. That is going to be fairly tongue heavy with full propane, stuff in the front storage, dresser and wardrobe and no bikes in the back. Make sure your tow vehicle is ready for that if you are going to be camping without motorcycles and a family riding in the tow vehicle. Water could add to that as well if it is in front of the axle.