Frivolous lawsuit against Keigwins trackday organization:gofundme link

What? That repost that got you all hard earlier, or something new?

 

Yeah posssibly. I’ve never looked at any statistical data to support or disprove my feelings one way or the other. I’m not sure, even with having this info, you could accurately establish a safety level for each track. I was at Laguna when Jamie Bowman passed so I never felt fondly of that place. I understand the changes and improvements they have done but they have also done the same at Sonoma. So.... tough deal. Motorcycles on track are risky. Indentify risk and try and minimize it but never can control it.
Just seems that placing those bags there is silly and SCRAMP should know better.

 

It's cool. We're still friends.

 

Bowman didn't hit temporary obstacles, though, he hit the wall on rider's left coming out of two. It was an odd crash.

 

Yep, although the wall section was pulled out and repositioned to create an entry way to inside of track resulting in almost a head on impact. Bad deal.

 

Two of my friends died at Sonoma within month. One right across where I hit wall and one in turn 9 hitting that wall.
Bags are silly and it would be nice to not have any of them but whoever rents track should ask to be removed. I know when we go there first thing is to inspect track. Some things are taken care of if needed and some are talked about in drivers meeting.

 

good pt about a muddy track. funny thought... if the sandbags weren't there, perhaps the erosion would have put mud on the track and Keigwins would have done something. cones, cancellation, something. we prob wouldn't be having this convo.

u are a race organizer talking with an experienced racer. would u say the same of a C-group rider at their first trackday? or should they just defer to the expertise of the trackday organizer, since they probably don't know any better? the track is still safer than the street even w/ those sandbags...

thats one thing I think people forget in the personal responsibility argument. not everyone can have adequate personal responsibility because they lack knowledge. so IMO, rules/regulations need to exist to protect those ppl.

I don't know how much experience the crashed rider has, so these thoughts may not be valid for him and this incident.

 

have u ever ridden at Fontana? the banking wall is prob 100ft from the final corner. I don't think there is any reasonable way someone would hit the wall at near perpendicular angle. perhaps Mongo will comment if someone has ever hit the banking wall on his days.

on the flip side, it is perfectly reasonable that a rider would run off into or near those sandbags. trackday riders target fixate themselves off track all the time at any point in a corner. the track design itself has tons of gravel run-off in that area also showing that a run-off is expected. that difference in "whats reasonable" is huge w/ all of this.

 

I think you are focusing on the final outcome and missing the differences in the process. if a new rider came to u and complained about something that u know is not unreasonably unsafe, ud probably still offer the refund. but I bet ud also tell them its not unsafe, effectively try to convince them to deal with it. or maybe your lawyers/insurance told u not to say that for fear of increasing liability , joking. if I came to u with a complaint, I think the convo would probably be different. im confident we have similar expectations about safety around a track, so the convo would reflect that.

IMO, thats somewhat whats happening here w/ the sandbags. the "expertise" of Keigwins and them still running the trackday "suggests" that the sandbags are not unreasonably unsafe. but me and a lot of ppl here disagree. so yes, personal responsibility still exists. but if an expert is telling u things are safe enough, and they aren't, theres an issue.

 

Dude I just have to ask, why do you hit return after every sentence? It's fucking weird. Feel like I'm reading a poem.

 

They do exist, they give you waiver to read and sign. They telling you it is your responsibility to be safe.

 

u misunderstood. the regulations that exist to protect ignorant ppl are probably gross negligence laws, ie the laws that allow the waiver to be broken.

 

So they do exist, gross negligence. Judge said there was none.

 

yep, and judges can be wrong. there is supposedly going to be an appeal and more judges will decide.

 

They can, deciding one way or other
You still end up with broken bones because of your own decision.

 

I expect C-riders who have never touched the track to exhibit the same amount of ignorance that i feel about spectators that stand on the outside of the entry to T1 at any car/bike/drift event so that when brakes fail or something really goes bad as the vehicle is coming off the fastest part of the track, it crushes them in a tornado of metal. I guess its a good picture angle? haha. Happens every year somewhere on earth.

I'd expect a person that's been racing before to never touch those sandbags. I expect somebody brand new to prove that anything stupid is possible.

 

Cause no matter how i write something some asshole comes on here and bitches about how i write but not the content.
And i guess we found the grammer nazi in the crowd.
Tell you what.
I can send everything i write to you and you can edit it for me and send it back so i can post.
Thanks for your concern.
Now back to the asshole who is suing cause he cant take responsibility for his actions.

Steven

 

Where does ownership of quality of off track surface start and stop though?

What if there were no sandbags there but a giant naturally created perpendicular rut from water run off or cattle track?

What if there was a concrete run off area but a crack in it parallel to the track?

We're opening the door to any and all liability suits at tracks if we start getting into letting people run off the designated surface and hold the track/trackday provider responsible.